Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by whughett, Aug 11, 2019.
Powder,filler,wad,ball.............. or does it matter.
Haven’t shot my 1858 repo in decades and didn’t use wads when I did. I think the consensus is that it is best to have the ball as close to the mouth of the chamber as possible. I guess if a wad is used it would be powder, wad, filler.
I always just did powder, ball, Crisco. With a handgun, my ability cancelled out any gain in accuracy having the ball near the mouth of the chamber
Powder, filler, ball, dab of lube.
I would load powder, filler, wad then ball on top.
I would keep the wad away from the powder especially if it's a lubed wad to avoid contamination of the powder.
I use unlubed cards and not wads but would do it the same way, with the card directly under the ball.
I also ram the cards to compress the powder before ramming the ball by itself, so it's 2 separate operations.
And that's another reason why I would place the filler under the wad, because the wad helps to compress the powder by ramming using a separate operation.
While it may not matter, why ram the filler with the ball instead of with the powder which the powders are easier to compress since the lead ball alone requires more effort than compressing the powder and filler because the ball needs to be shaved.
Don’t normally use fillers in revolvers, just prefer the flash and boom of full loads.
But tomorrow I benching the revolving carbine I’ve harped about in another another thread, shooting reduced loads for accuracy and the “ball at the mouth” may add some level of accuracy.
I do load 45C reduced loads, the filler in those goes on top of a waxed card followed by the wad.
I am a felt wad fan, I think they go along way towards cleaning as well as softening the powder fouling.
Powder, lubed wad, ball. KISS. I use dry lubed wads from Sagebrush Products (www.sagebrushproducts.com). Have never had a misfire using them. And I've left pistols loaded for up to a month that way.
Mr.fingers mcgee is right. K.i.s.s. i always use powder and then lubed wad/pill/cookie and never use fillers. Even reduced loads with a wad should get you close to the mouth of the cylinder...if you need a little more space to fill then go powder,lubed wad/pill, and then add a thin cardboard card, then ball/bullet. The card will also help seal the gasses from gas cutting your bullet
These are the paper cartridges i explained in the other thread you asked about them. They are cig paper with a red thin rice paper end that tells me thats the bottom end that the percussion cap busts through..then the layers are powder/wax paper/thin wax lube "pill/disc"/thin cereal card board. I also make paper cartridges without a bullet so that i can choose which bullet i want to use...these are made the same way although the ones in the pic are using thick lube "pills". I have one cartridge opened showing the cereal box cardboard disc inside before i sealed off the paper cartridge. I use only Deco cement glue as its flamable and leavea no residue and is water proof. Here are the pics. Oh and the cartidges that were made with the bullet attached are using kaido 140 grain conicals.
Nice looking cartridges.
You cant tell in the photos above but the paper cartridges will bullets attached actually have a thin lube disc between the powder and bullet. Its a very thin 1:5 mutton tallow to beeswax ratio lube disc....cant see it but its there.. The paper carts with no bullet attached has a very large lube disc and its very visible...these are my older cartridges i made before i realized i didnt need such large lube discs to lube a short 7.5 inch cap and ball barrel.
Thank you jimster. This style leaves no paper behind and since the bottom is one thin layer of rice paper ....it makes it so easy for the percussion cap to bust through to ignite the powder. Some people fold the bottom over leaving a thick layer of paper that doesnt always burn up entirely and leaves unburnt paper behind in the cylinder. This method prevents that. I also dont taper my cartridges...they are straight walled and just a hair smaller than my chamber so i have no issue whatsoever getting them in and they use up all usable space so no air pockets or areas of crumpled up paper against the chamber walls...they fit nice and straight into the chambers.
Do you have a form ot mold to make them or just make them by hand? I like the idea and they look great.
I use a dowel lol. Ill make step by step picture post
Well what actually "matters" is you have no air gap in the cylinder, you don't get a chain fire, and you get reliable ignition with accuracy. So...,
I like powder, wad, filler if needed, and ball. I don't grease over the opening to the chamber on a live round as my wad is lubed and tight, and I've never had a chain fire by this method.
I only do this as this was how I was taught. The fellow teaching me was worried that when using something like grits or corn meal, in dry conditions (when I was learning) the grits or corn meal would smolder longer than bits of black powder, giving off little if any smoke unlike the burning clumps of powder, and thus you could have a problem. Less chance, he thought, of kindling the filler into a fire source if the wad was lubed and between the powder and filler.
When it comes to covering the cylinder chambers with a wax, I use something like 3 or 4 parts beeswax, one part lard. I want that very stiff, make round balls of the stuff, which I ram into place, to form blanks protected from chain fires. I'm also careful to aim right or left of anybody when shooting such a blank at a living history event. I've tried wax straight, both paraffin and beeswax, and they make projectile.., soft, but projectiles. Wax bullets are good to chase off a stray dog or a buzzard in the garbage without doing any damage to the critter, but during living history events the boys on the other side don't like any bullets, even soft ones.
I've never used wads. I was too cheap.
Why in the world would you ever use "filler" in a black powder revolver? There is already barely enough room for powder. You fill it up with powder and then JAM a ball down on top until the cylinder will turn.
If you're shooting for accuracy, you'll find the guns shoot best with relatively light loads. Around 15 grains, possibly less. I shot a 9-grain load at 25 yards for years.
powder then ball.
I think that's why I noticed that some competition shooters who use a filler such as semolina cover the ball with their own lube concoction.
That was something shown on the cap and ball channel video showing how a Walker won the 1st open top class revolver competition.
He loaded powder, filler and then ball with lube on top but without any wad, lubed or otherwise.
I don't think that dry lubed wads are very effective at lubricating, but they are sold as such.
Perhaps they are intended more for rifle shooting with the use of a lubed patch and mainly to stop blow by.
I still believe that many are concerned about powder contamination when using [wet] lubed wads, depending on how long the revolver is loaded.
That's also a concern when placing lube over the ball since it may migrate past the ball over time and contaminate the powder.
cap and ball's over the ball revolver lube seems much more like a harder paste compared to Bore Butter, and I believe that it's custom made to be a harder lube.
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