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Chicago police state: Daley wants cameras in all bars

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Manedwolf, Feb 19, 2006.

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  1. Manedwolf

    Manedwolf member

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    Sickening. Note what I highlighted, the guy used THE line that is the key to all fascism...again. Also note that other cameras will alert police if someone "lingers outside a public building".

    And that thing on the pole scares me. I can just see a bunch of those coming on with blue flashing lights and a stentorian voice declaring "attention citizens, a law enforcement alert has been declared, all citizens return to your homes immediately"...

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    Daley wants security cameras at bars
    By Judy Keen, USA TODAY
    CHICAGO — Surveillance cameras — aimed at government buildings, train platforms and intersections here — might soon be required at corner taverns and swanky nightclubs.

    [​IMG]
    A police camera, mounted with a microphone, can detect the sound of gunshots within a two-block radius.

    Mayor Richard Daley wants to require bars open until 4 a.m. to install security cameras that can identify people entering and leaving the building. Other businesses open longer than 12 hours a day, including convenience stores, eventually would have to do the same.

    Daley's proposed city ordinance adds a dimension to security measures installed after the Sept. 11 attacks.

    The proliferation of security cameras — especially if the government requires them in private businesses — troubles some civil liberties advocates.

    "There is no reason to mandate all of those cameras unless you one day see them being linked up to the city's 911 system," says Ed Yohnka of the Illinois American Civil Liberties Union. "We have perhaps reached that moment of critical mass when people ... want to have a dialogue about how much of this is appropriate."

    Milwaukee is considering requiring cameras at stores that have called police three or more times in a year. The Baltimore County Council in Maryland ordered large malls to put cameras in parking areas after a murder in one garage last year. The measure passed despite objections from business groups.

    "We require shopping centers to put railings on stairs and install sprinkler systems for public safety. This is a proper next step," says Baltimore County Councilman Kevin Kamenetz, who sponsored the ordinance.

    Some cities aren't going along. Schenectady, N.Y., shelved a proposal that would have required cameras in convenience stores.

    "The safer we make the city, the better it is for everyone," says Chicago Alderman Ray Suarez, who first proposed mandatory cameras in some businesses. "If you're not doing anything wrong, what do you have to worry about?"

    Nick Novich, owner of three Chicago bars, worries about the cost. "Every added expense ... puts a small business in greater jeopardy of going out of business," he says. Daley says cameras will deter crime, but Novich says, "That's what we're paying taxes for."

    Colleen McShane, president of the Illinois Restaurant Association, says the proposal, which Daley announced last week, is an unfair burden on small businesses. "This is once again more government intrusion," she says.

    Some business owners say cameras make patrons feel safer. Cameras are in all 30 Chicago bars, clubs and restaurants owned by Ala Carte Entertainment, spokeswoman Julia Shell says: "It's far more cost-effective for us to have them than not to have them."

    By spring, 30 Chicago intersections will have cameras to catch drivers who run red lights. More than 2,000 cameras around the city are linked to an emergency command center, paid for in part by federal homeland security funds.

    The newest "smart" cameras alert police when there's gunfire or when someone leaves a package or lingers outside public buildings. The system is based on the one in London that helped capture suspected terrorists after last summer's subway bombings.

    Chicago is installing those sophisticated camera systems more aggressively than any other U.S. city, says Rajiv Shah, an assistant professor at the University of Illinois-Chicago who studies the policy implications of surveillance technology. Recording what people do in public "is just getting easier and cheaper to do," he says. "Think of your camera cellphone."
     
  2. wally

    wally Member

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    Seems a paintball gun or a hand full of mud would be a good way to poke big brother in the eye.

    --wally.
     
  3. turretG

    turretG Member

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    Here's a quote from someone who might fit in, in Chicago.



    What luck for rulers that men do not think.
    Adolf Hitler
    German Nazi dictator, orator, & politician (1889 - 1945)
     
  4. Turkey Creek

    Turkey Creek Member

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    Wanna bet they start with the nudie bars first? :neener:
     
  5. BigRobT

    BigRobT Member

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    I'm seeing this line mentioned FAR too often: "If you're not doing anything wrong, what do you have to worry about?"

    It's not what I have to worry about, it's the constant usurping of our civil liberties. I've heard it used for the invasive Patriot Act, by gun control advocates, and in a couple of other venues. Like Franklin said, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." No truer words have been said.
     
  6. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    There's a small problem: the leftist extremists sincerely believe no liberty is essential, or at least, no liberty enjoyed by other people.
     
  7. fedlaw

    fedlaw Member

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    And his initials are RMD. aka The Little King.
     
  8. DKSuddeth

    DKSuddeth Member

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    I guess it's just too damn much to ask him how having a camera is going to make it safer when it only takes 30 seconds to enter, shoot, rob, and leave.
     
  9. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

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    Maybe if they just banned guns in Chicago they wouldn't have any crime problems:rolleyes:
     
  10. KriegHund

    KriegHund Member

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    If a bar wants to use it, fine, but it should not be mandatory.

    Let me guess, the bars have to pay for the survailence equipment, not the police?
     
  11. grampster
    • Contributing Member

    grampster Member

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    "A man that would give up a little liberty to gain a little safety, deserves neither."

    Would that the above words would gain as much public attention as has "Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember Pearl Harbor" or "Let's Roll"!

    PS: There is a manufacturer that produces clear plastic covers for your license plates that allows anyone to see the plate (unlawful to obscure) but when a spy camera at a traffic control device takes a pic of your car and plate, the plate number will not show up on the picture.
    I'm trying to find the web site and am going to order a set.
     
  12. lamazza

    lamazza Member

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    I'm pretty confidant that those cameras would be vandalized PDQ
     
  13. defjon

    defjon Member

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    Like Franklin said, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." No truer words have been said.


    There's a small problem: the leftist extremists sincerely believe no liberty is essential, or at least, no liberty enjoyed by other people.


    Um, 'scue me here, but last time I checked the patriot act and the home-spyin' programs were not initiated by "leftist extremists"...methinks it was the polar opposite?
     
  14. joab

    joab Member

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    Shows what you know
    It would obviously be a crime to do so and the cameras will be there to deter crime
     
  15. Manedwolf

    Manedwolf member

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    Don't. ANY cover that can obscure from any angle like that can land you a huge fine in a lot of states. If a state trooper sees your plate suddenly blur from the corner of their eye as you pass by, you'll see blue lights behind you in a hell of a hurry.

    The only "legal" means is the Photoblocker spray. And that only works if it's a flash-using film camera.

    Don't use the prismatic plastic cover, there's already laws on the books, and in some states, it's a $500+ fine. In some states, any cover on the plate is illegal, clear or not.
     
  16. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    I often wonder the cost structurre of these camera deals. There is the cost of the camera, plus whatever system conveys pictures to a central location. Then, personnel to monitor.

    Or, are the cameras only reviewed after some crime has occurred? Like those at convenience stores?

    Same questions apply for the Houston deal, natch...

    Art
     
  17. Merkin.Muffley

    Merkin.Muffley member

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    Seems reasonable - who knows, maybe Bin Laden will stop in for a cold one and they'll catch him using one of these cameras.
     
  18. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

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    I wonder if any other state has specialty license plates that are difficult to read. Wisconsin has a sesquicentenial (say that 5 times) plate that is darn near impossible to read if you are more than 10 ft away from it. http://www.dot.state.wi.us/drivers/vehicles/personal/sesquifaq.htm The photo on the Wisconsin DOT doesn't do it any justice. Get a little road grime on it, and it looks like a multiclolor blur. If I were going to rob a bank, I'd make sure I had these plates on my car.
     
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