Chris kyle shot dead

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As I said I deeply regret this happening, but please don't allow this to influence some kind of forced Karma thing. I was almost killed with no gun, and survived with a gun on more than one occasion. If I had my choice, as I am sure Chris would have wanted, I would choose to be armed.
If you are unarmed you have no say in the matter, in this case it was a sneaky coward who shot him, but many times you can see it coming, and to not be armed is to have no control over your life, and that of others.
Having had it both ways I swore I would never give anyone the power of deciding if I live or die, without having a say in that decision.
If you are unarmed, you have no say, unfortunatelly in this case he didn't see it coming, which can happen to any of us. It was fast and hopefully painless, but I am sure if he could have seen it coming, it would have ended differentlly.
 
I was fortunate enough to meet Chris Kyle (very) briefly at the SHOT Show this year. I couldn't imagine meeting a nicer, more upstanding guy. Got him to sign an autograph for my brother who is currently in the Navy. He signed it, "thank you for your service." That a guy who has given so much for his country still feels the need to thank others for their service tells me all I need to know. America lost a great guy.
 
cacoltguy said:
Terrible news

On a side note I'm kind of getting tired of "PTSD" being used to explain away everything bad a serviceman does. For the record I served in Iraq in combat. In my opinion this is nothing more than a symptom of a culture and society that has lost its way morally. These guys are part of a generation raised by single mom's, video games, and a morally corrupted entertainment industry. Now we have half of them claiming PTSD so they can collect a disability check for life and use it to explain away every dumb thing they do in life. I never heard of a soldier from WWII doing things like this, never heard of Civil War soldiers going on rampages (way more stressful and traumatic wars than Iraq or Afghanistan) And yes guys got plenty of concussions (probably more so) from explosions in those conflicts as well so that comment about "IED's and brain damage" is nonsense. Let's face it, something has changed in society and it's not the brutal nature of war. PTSD is just a scapegoat being used to explain away the failure to accept personal responsibility.
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You never heard about it, probably not. WWII and the Civil War spawned just as many damaged men (more because of the gross numbers of them) that every war does. Vietnam was supposed to be the worst because of the political climate. The Middle East wars may be the worst because of the multiple tours of duty and the whole brain injury thing. But in the end, war breaks a certain percentage of the men that fight them and the only real key/cure seems to be getting as many years between the man and the conflict as possible without anything bad happening. The vast majority manage to pull this off to one degree or another. Some are perfectly normal, some kinda zapped out but harming no one...a few do bad things.
 
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Outlaw Man said:
I was fortunate enough to meet Chris Kyle (very) briefly at the SHOT Show this year. I couldn't imagine meeting a nicer, more upstanding guy. Got him to sign an autograph for my brother who is currently in the Navy. He signed it, "thank you for your service." That a guy who has given so much for his country still feels the need to thank others for their service tells me all I need to know. America lost a great guy.
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Wow. Thanks for sharing....sounds like he was a standup guy yet humble too (not a surprise, I know).
 
The difference now a days is that we take people who never did anything remotelly dangerous, the opposite of our forefarthers, and stick them in a war zone with a gun, expecting that they will adapt. In days of old, people were brought up with a different mental and physical toughness.
You can't take a kid who watches movies and goes to clubs, and stick him in a war zone in 6 months, and expect there to be no mental problems.
years ago people had a harder road working in steel mills and on farms or factories before that. They were more apt to integrate into a military lifestyle than today. The same goes for every new illness on TV each week, we are a product of our own "soft" way of life.
That is why we didn't have all these "syndrones" back then.
 
The descriptions of PTSD in war go way, way back in the literature, although not by that name. For instance, in 1915 the term shell shock was coined. Other names from that period were included traumatic hysteria, soldier's heart and war exhaustion, but shell shock stuck.

Googled up at random, www.las.illinois.edu/news/2009/ptsd

It's happened in every war it appears. In WWII the U.S. rotated the more severely impaired out of the line for rest.

John
 
When you veterans start talking stuff like "die by the sword", I step back, i'm not in that club. If i didn't do it i don't wear the T-shirt or talk the talk.

Kyle did not live by the sword, he was not a thug or mercenary. He was a guy who could have lived for 80 years, just 4 out of those 80 potential he spent in battle. We needed him and he raised his hand and did what he was told. he paid his dues and did his part and deserved to live a long, prosperous life with his family. I spent 15 years in the fire service, i don't think i deserve to die in a fire because i chose low pay, hard work and an uncomfortable environment for a small part of my life.

My son is in the reserves now. If someone orders him to sniper school or something similar he'll say yes sir and do his best, he's a really, really good boy. If he happens to shoot people and then comes home he deserves our respect, gratitude and any help we can give him. He deserves to live a long and happy life knowing that he did his part when we needed him..... he does not deserve to "die by the sword"

Just my thoughts, I'll understand if you vets tell me to shut up, that i just don't get it.
 
JohnBT said:
The descriptions of PTSD in war go way, way back in the literature, although not by that name.
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Way, way WAAAAY back.

Herodotus mentions what we would consider PTSD numerous times.






I can vaguely recall a description of a returning classical era Greek soldier who kept going into the fields and killing livestock with his sword when he would have his "overload" moments but I can't precisely remember the attribution.... anybody?
 
The killer is currently strapped down to a chair, frothing at the mouth and gibbering. They've had to zap him to get him to calm down a little. He allegedly said he "sold his soul for a pickup".

So I think we're way beyond PTSD here folks. Lots of questions need to be asked as to why he was ever allowed to leave the mental hospital, how he got a firearm and who could have warned the police that a madman was on the loose. In the end his own sister had to call it in out of fear for her own life.
 
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Akita1 said:
Cold is definitely right, perhaps even inappropriate...but will defend your right to express your view. As I often say on this forum, the BOR does not come with a multiple choice option...

Having said that: he was retired, not active duty. He was shooting targets, not enemy combatants. He likely saved more lives than he took during active duty.

If you're saying that Karma came calling or something of that nature, not sure any of us have the universal knowledge to accurately decipher such things. In my experience we do that to rationalize circumstances we can not possibly understand.

IMHO we should show some respect for a fallen hero, let his loved ones grieve and have a scientific discussion later.
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The way I read this post was that having been a warrior in life, and then maintaining a high profile as such after retirement, he may well have given occassion for this psycho to "prove his mettle" against someone his twisted mind may have perceived as a worthy, if not superior adversary. I read this post rather differently than some. There are many other similar warriors, who will have experienced similar things, fought similar wars, done their duty as called upon to do it, who are now, having retired, selling tires, plowing fields, rolling steel, selling stocks and bonds, or taking out tonsils...but who are not making the specific nature of their service known to all.

That's how I read this post.
 
Motive?

Apparently Routh had become exceptionally paranoid.

When Routh arrived around 5:45 p.m., his brother-in-law Gaines Blevins said he was “acting and talking strangely.” Routh told his brother-in-law and sister, Laura, that he and two other people “were out shooting target practice and he couldn’t trust them so he killed them before they could kill him.” Routh told them “he traded his soul for a new truck.”
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http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crim...kyle-chad-littlefield-feared-for-her-life.ece
 
I don't recall Herodotus' tale of a soldier killing livestock, but around 450 B.C. Sophoceles wrote a play about Ajax and the Trojan War.

Ajax, having been driven mad, kills a large number of cattle thinking they are his fellow soldiers. When he eventually comes to his senses he cannot deal with the humiliation and commits suicide.
 
A follow up to my previous post in this thread about always wearing body armor at a public range. Only reason I have been using the local indoor range is a local doctor wanted me to teach him and his wife firearms safty, shooting and tactics. Although he realizes I am good at my job he has thought me always donning a 3a vest before going in a concrete room full of people I don't know who are all shooting guns as paranoid. Since we started training he has purchased 2 Smith scandium frame 7 shot 22 mag wheel guns for super light jogging weapons, 2 Sig Sauer .380's, a Khar compact 9mm and a 12 gauge. With the High Standard.22lr he had it is good start on his collection. Tonight went to his house for lessons in tactics and some exercises with dummy rounds. Mag swaps, clearing jams, etc. He has seen details on this incident on the news several times and says he has been nervous a time or two at the range. Once when a guy handed a class 3 Uzi to his girl friend who had never shot a gun and got a bit wild. Before leaving I sized them up and tomorrow ordering them each a lightweight level II vest and a level IIIa with plates. He is not going back to the range till he gets them. A dozen mixed new to experienced shooters all blazing away in a concrete room is an accident waiting to happen. In a range a vest is same idea as seatbelts even if you intend to avoid a wreck and condoms when you sleep with a stranger. In all these scenarios odds are low something will go bad. But if it does, it will be real bad. A vest rated to 9mm which is most common range caliber is cheap. Just a thought. Won't stop an intent looney with an AK but a mishandling of a pistol nearby could be taken from catastrophic to a scary experience.
 
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JohnBT said:
The descriptions of PTSD in war go way, way back in the literature, although not by that name. For instance, in 1915 the term shell shock was coined. Other names from that period were included traumatic hysteria, soldier's heart and war exhaustion, but shell shock stuck.

Googled up at random, www.las.illinois.edu/news/2009/ptsd

It's happened in every war it appears. In WWII the U.S. rotated the more severely impaired out of the line for rest.

John
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I have no first hand experience with such things, but having friends and family who do, I found David Grossman's book On Killing very informative.
 
Highly decorated Iraq war veteran Chris Kyle is tragically murdered and not one word. The silence is deafening, Mr. President.
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But let's be honest...if Mr. President had spoken about Chris Kyle's murder many would have accused him of insincerity, and of using a veteran's death to highlight gun violence and further his own agenda.

Tinpig
 
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