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Cimmaron .45LC Revolver Choices?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by il.bill, Jul 16, 2017 at 3:14 PM.

  1. il.bill
    • Contributing Member

    il.bill Member

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    Greetings

    I am looking to buy a 45LC Colt SAA copy with a 5 1/2" barrel for fun / plinking and have narrowed my choices down to four Cimmaron models. The prices are within $20 of each other and I am sure I would be happy with any of them - I am looking for any input to help me make up my mind. They are the CIMARRON FRONTIER Model PP411, the CIMARRON Model P #MP513, the CIMARRON Model P #MP511, and the CIMARRON EL MALO (with octagon barrel) #PP411Malo.

    I realize that I could get a Ruger Blackhawk (but I already have a 4 7/8" convertible and want a SAA copy this time in 5 1/2") for about $50 more, or even a Vaquero for a bit more still, but I am pretty sure that I will go with one of the Cimarrons.

    Any Cimarron owners who care to share their experiences about any of the four mentioned?
     
  2. red rick

    red rick Member

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    I would get the model P if it didn't have the retractable firing pin that Uberti is going to on all of their revolvers .
     
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  3. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    I would NOT get the CIMARRON EL MALO as the octagon barrel is not a option that Colt offered on the SAA.

    Since the MP513 is the most accurate reproduction I would choose it.
     
  4. Jimster

    Jimster Member

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    I also would not get the octogon barrel. I'm surprised they even make one like that. I can't speak of the 5 1/2" versions but I love my Uberti/Cimarron 7th Cav model with the black powder frame. Very nice fit and finish.
     
  5. il.bill
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    il.bill Member

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    The octagon barrel looks kind of cool, but after thinking about the above replies it has been eliminated. If I do not want a Ruger because I wanted something more 'authentic', an octagon would not fit the bill.

    The Model P #MP513 looks very nice ...

    Cimarron_MP513.jpg
    I copied this info off of Cimarron's website:
    Considered as the most authentic and highest quality reproduction of the 1873 Colt, Cimarron's replica was reproduced in every detail from an original 1873 single action in our antique collection, and was not replicated by working simply from drawings, as with previous reproductions. We also took extra steps to improve the gun's reliability with our Cowboy Comp® action which eliminates weaknesses associated with the 19th century design. Offered in the 7 1/2, 5 1/2, or 4 3/4-inch barrel lengths, in either the pre-1896-style Old Model with the cylinder base pin screw located in the front of the frame, or the post-1896 Pre-War frame, where the cylinder base pin retaining screw is found on the side of the frame, in front of the cylinder.

    I like SA revolvers with the convenient spring-loaded side mounted retaining pin, but for a guy like me, the front retaining screw should be just fine. I am sure that I thoroughly clean my firearms less frequently than most of the folks here on THR, so I would only be dealing with it regularly when checking the screws for tightness before heading to the range (having the ejector housing fly off into the grass will teach that lesson quickly).

    I certainly do not 'need' this SAA, but I have been shooting my Pieta 1873 .357 Magnum more lately and that has me wanting something a bit 'old fashioned' to shoot my .45 Colt cowboy loads to keep from over using my 1858 Remington New Army conversion-cylinder equipped revolver. The Ruger convertible is a sweet shooter, but I just think a 5 1/2" barrel SAA is the berries. and the heart wants what the heart wants.

    Thanks for the replies - any comments are most welcome, especially now from any MP513 shooters!
     
  6. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    il.bill

    I agree! I like the look of the one piece walnut grips in particular. A number of years ago I was looking for a SAA copy and came across a Beretta Stampede, new in the box. Liked the overall fit and finish of it and that it was chambered in .45 Colt. Added the faux ivory grips a couple of months ago to "dress it up" a bit from the rather plain looking black plastic ones it came with.

    f2dzM6m.jpg

    G0naMij.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017 at 6:40 PM
  7. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    The MP513 looks very nice, I would probably choose that one of the 4.

    Did you look at the Cattleman line from Uberti? They have over a dozen variations, all nice too.
     
  8. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    il.bill

    Taylor's Firearms also carries an extensive line-up of various Uberti single action revolvers.
     
  9. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    I don't try to discern all the different models. My personal preference is typically Uberti-made, no transfer bar or floating firing pin nonsense and the crosspin frame with 2nd generation style squared off sights.

    I have to disagree about octagon barrels, they are the coolest thing since sliced bread on the right sixgun. Got another on the way. Some of the Cimarron models have the longer 1860 Army grip frame and that is a big plus to me.

    IMG_8980b.jpg


    Not to mention being totally historically correct for models other than the SAA, so not exactly a foreign concept. :confused:

    IMG_5641b.jpg
     
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  10. Driftwood Johnson

    Driftwood Johnson Member

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    Howdy

    I have owned a couple of Cimarrons over the years.

    Cimarron used to spread it around that their revolvers and rifles were better than any other importer's stuff, that extra work was done at the factory to make their stuff better. That has largely been debunked over the years. While Cimarron specifies specific finishes and markings that are different than other importers, inside, where it counts, the mechanics, fit and finish of their imports are no better, and no worse, than any other importers.

    I have owned two Cimarrons over the years, both part of their Cattleman series. The first one I bought about 15 years ago. 45 Colt, it had a bright, almost robin's egg blue finish on the barrel and cylinder, mimicking the finish on some of the very early Colts. I found out the hard way this was not a robust finish, within a year the sweat from my palm completely removed the blue from the backstrap, causing the steel to turn a battleship gray color. A minor complaint, I knew the finish would not be robust. But in addition to that, this revolver had the absolute worst trigger pull of any revolver I have ever owned. Gritty, with a decided hitch in its get along. As if that wasn't bad enough, the barrel had not been screwed in properly and the front sight leaned visibly to one side. Yes, if I had known then what I kown now, I would never have bought it, but I didn't so I did. Within a year I had parted company with that revolver, using the money as a down payment on a Ruger Vaquero. OK, maybe this one was not a typical example of a Cattleman, maybe it was a Friday afternoon gun, but it was truly a dog.

    Not to be completely disillusioned with Cimarron Cattlemen, a couple of years later I came across another one. This one was 45 Colt also, but with a more standard, modern blue. No problems with this one, I still have it, although I don't shoot it much because I have a couple of Colts that I shoot more often. Overall, not a bad revolver. It does not have the quality of a Colt, but it does not have the price tag of a Colt either.

    cattleman%2004_zpsjgx0blgh.jpg


    A few comments: Don't be taken in by all that guff Cimarron has published about how they have perfectly reproduced the old Colts from antiques and not from drawings. Everybody does that. There are no drawings to reproduce old revolvers from. Any drawings that existed would have been proprietary information of Colt's and they would not be handing those out to anybody. And the bit about updating the design to eliminate the weaknesses of the old design is a lot of window dressing too. Basically all they did was replace the old leaf style spring for the hand, which was prone to breaking, with a coil spring mounted under one of the grip screws, very similar to what Ruger does.

    Yes, that spring along with the split/trigger bolt spring is the most likely spring to break in the old Colt design. But it ain't a huge deal.

    Do be sure whether or not you are looking at the new action Uberti has started making which incorporates a firing pin that floats in the hammer and retracts when the trigger is released. That is a brand new design, quite different from the original Colt design, and it has not been around long enough to evaluate how well it holds up.

    Personally I would not buy one of the old style revolvers with the screw in front holding the cylinder pin in place. Colt replaced that style for good reason around 1892 or so because the spring loaded transverse latch was simply a better idea. Plus, I shoot Black Powder, and if I need to remove the cylinder at the range for any reason, I don't want to be fumbling around for a tiny screwdriver. But that's just me. I will say, judging from the photos, Cimarron has replicated the original style of screw. Countersunk into the frame so it barely protrudes at all. Some models have a knurled thumb screw that protrudes from the front of the frame for the obvious reason that you don't need a screwdriver to remove it. However if one wants a replica that replicates a Colt to the 'nth' degree, Colt never put a knurled cylinder pin retention screw on any of their revolvers.

    Not sure what rear sight Cimarron is using these days. On mine, which is quite a few years old now, the rear sight replicates the original 'V' groove sight very well. When Colt brought out the 2nd Gen Colts in the mid 1950s, the rear sight was reconfigured to a square shape. Not as traditional, but much easier for old eyes to see.

    In this photo, the squared off 2nd Gen Colt rear sight is on the left, the Cimarron/Uberti V groove rear sight is on the right. Although the V groove replicates the rear sight on an old Colt, the squared off 2nd Gen style is much easier for my old eyes to see.

    2ndGenColtandUbertiCattleman_zpsbe079bb7.jpg




    Actual rear sight of a 1st Gen Bisley Colt.

    BisleyColt_zps4d8dbbd3.jpg




    Regarding octagon barrels on a revolver, sorry Craig, gotta disagree with you on that one. Those are all Cap & Ball revolvers you have pictured in your second photo. Yes, octagon barrels were common with the Colt and Remington C&B revolvers. But Colt never put an octagon barrel on the SAA. Oh, maybe they did on some custom models, but it was never a production item. And when Remington brought out their cartridge revolver in 1875, the octagon barrel of the 1858 Model had given way to a round barrel.

    So no octagon barrelled SAA replicas for me.
     
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  11. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    Problem is that the finish the importers market as "charcoal blue" really isn't. It's nitre blue and it's very fragile. Real charcoal (aka carbona) bluing is more durable than modern hot salt bluing and is the finish present on the octagon barreled Ruger above but it's more labor-intensive and expensive to produce.

    Colt and Remington both made cartridge guns with octagon barrels. I know they didn't put one on the SAA and don't really care. They didn't put an Army grip on them either but maybe they should have! Ruger never made an Old Model .44Spl or anything in a .500 but that doesn't stop me either. I don't think we should limit ourselves to what the factory offered.

    They never made a centerfire Open Top either.

    IMG_2281b.jpg
     
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  12. Driftwood Johnson

    Driftwood Johnson Member

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    Well Craig, you are certainly correct.

    The Henry rifle was never chambered for 44-40, but that didn't stop me from buying one.

    Henry07_zps6828738f.jpg


    By the way, I always enjoy your photos of your guns.
     
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  13. Crunchy Frog

    Crunchy Frog Member

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    Cimarron's Frontier revolvers are made by Pietta. Model Ps are Uberti.
     

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