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City Council closing San Gabriel Valley Gun Club.

Discussion in 'Legal' started by BamBam-31, Dec 3, 2004.

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  1. BamBam-31

    BamBam-31 Member

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    You can read about it here: article

    Basically, to appease local homeowners (who signed disclosures stating that they knew there was a shooting range nearby before purchasing their homes), the City Council ordered staff to change the zoning where my local shooting range is located. It will be changed from commercial (where a shooting range is permissible) to open space (where a shooting range would not be allowed).

    Conniving rat bastards. :cuss:


    This is my local range. This is where Beetle Bailey and I go shooting every weekend. We've befriended many of the regulars and employees. This is our weekend hangout, like Cheers. I can't believe they're doing this. Don't know if I'm more :fire: or :( .

    What can we do?
     
  2. Marnoot

    Marnoot Member

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    There are occasional attempts like that at the range here in Bountiful, UT. The range is up on the side of the mountain, and was there long before there was a single house within a mile of the place. All the people who built their big fancy homes next to it were well aware of its presence before they built. Nonetheless, they intermittently try to get it shut down by the same kinds of methods. :barf:

    I'm not a fan of the range myself, as both times I've used the rifle range there, I've been subjected to extreme snobbery by fellow shooters; but I am outraged by the attempts of people to do things like this. It's like the people that build a house next to an airport and then complain about the noise. The [il]logic boggles my mind.
     
  3. denfoote

    denfoote Member

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  4. Boats

    Boats member

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    Denfoote--no one fights over the right to have a beautifully peaceful homestead near the set location from Tremors. :evil:
     
  5. Noban

    Noban Member

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    The article states:

    "Currently, the gun club is located in a commercial zone, but the council on Monday told staff to change it to open space, which wouldn't allow for that type of operation."

    This is just a first step and will not result in the Club's immediate closure. However, the Club will become a legal non-conforming use, thus restricting any future expansion or upgrades. Death by a thousand cuts

    This is chicken-???? back door planning.
     
  6. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

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    I have to ask

    Who owns the land that the range is on? If its privately owned, it would seem to me that changing the zoning from commercial to open space is an act of taking on the part of the City Council. IIRC, around here (Boulder, CO) open space is just that, open, undeveloped land that can not be develped.
     
  7. CAPTAIN MIKE

    CAPTAIN MIKE Member

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    I Agree - Hire an Attorney and FIGHT IT

    Just laying down and accepting it will do no good.
     
  8. DRZinn

    DRZinn Member

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    :banghead:
    1. Bullsh*t. The range was there first, just like a lot of airports are there first, when idiots like you built their homes in the glidepath, then started complaining. Shut up.

    2. IANAL, but there's got to be something somewhere that can stop them from using the zoning laws as a retroactive prohibition.
     
  9. DRZinn

    DRZinn Member

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    In a pot of water, 200 degrees and rising slowly..
    Also reminds me of a lot of city folk that move out to farm country, then complain that hogs smell and tractors make noise and dust.
     
  10. 2nd Amendment

    2nd Amendment member

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    OK, I assume this must be a state by state thing, since changing the zoning in Indiana(where they have such an atrocity anyway) wouldn't do them a bit of good. Previously existing businesses are grandfathered for exactly this reason, preventing such political manipulation of zoning ordinances.
     
  11. trapperjohn

    trapperjohn Member

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    I feel for you, that sucks big time.

    this is another reason we have to keep pushing private property rights.
     
  12. RKCheung

    RKCheung Member

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    That's sad. More and more SG Valley ranges are disappearing. Santa Anita left a couple years back. Now SGVGC may be going. We're running out of places to shoot. :banghead:
     
  13. BamBam-31

    BamBam-31 Member

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    Sucks. I liked Santa Anita, too. A high school buddy of mine worked there. I think the owner just decided not to keep it open any longer, however. It wasn't a case of the city telling him to hit the road. There's still Burro and Angeles to shoot at, but those are a bit further out. SGVGC is MY place to shoot, however.

    AFAIK, the SGVGC has legal representation and will take this to court. Good on them. What I want to know is, why the heck don't we have the grandfather clause here? :banghead:
     
  14. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    Yeah, get some legal advice. Generally, the "grandfather" concept applies to existing activities. The change in zoning means no new range could be established...

    Make sure there's proof that home buyers were informed before sales.

    If local homeowners continue to fuss, try for a written agreement, binding on all parties: Some compromise about shooting hours, for instance. I know nothing about present range activities or its size, but "No .50BMG or machine guns" might buy off the complainants.

    The reason I suggest the compromise is from knowledge of past anti-use campaigns. The old Waterford Hills Raceway, near Pontiac, Michigan, first built some fencing after a subdivision developed next door. Then, the race cars were subject to a db limit, and then mufflers were required.

    Over the long haul, complaining homeowners generally win out. They're part of the reason for the dangerous climb rates on takeoffs for commercial aviation's big jets. (You think those pilots use those steep climb angles just for fun?)

    Art
     
  15. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    In exactly one word: parasites!
     
  16. F4GIB

    F4GIB Member

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    NRA lists California as a state with NRA-sponsored "shooting range protection" legislation. So it's time to find a good land use attorney and fight.
     
  17. JPM70535

    JPM70535 Member

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    The closing of even 1 shooting range should raise the awareness of all shooters that we are under constant subtle attack from the anti gun crowd, who will use any and all means to restrict (eliminate) the evil GUN.

    I don't make that statement lightly. In spite of the best efforts of the Gun Grabbers "We the People" still have the RKBA, however much that right may be restricted. The one area where the Antis are succeeding at an ever increasing rate is in eliminating places where shooters may practice their craft and hone their skills. Just off the top of my head I can think of 4 established Ranges here in Central Florida that have closed in the last 10 years. 2 of them have directly affected me and needless to say I don't like it, even though the closings were justified in the eyes of those in charge.

    Let me back up a couple of years and beat a dead horse by reminding myself how things used to be in "The good old days" When I could walk the streets of my town carrying my 22 rifle, headed for the woods to decimate the beer can population. This done with the tacit approval of the local Police whose only advice was to shoot safe.

    Times change, populations shift , what once was woods becomes a sub division with the folks who live there understandably concerned with possible dtray roiunds depriving them of their pursuit of happiness. Bitch, moan, bitch, moan, and presto, no more shooting in the woods.

    Foreward a few years and the picture changes. Now I shoot at a privately owned outdoor range located on what was once the outskirts of another small town but is now surrounded by subdivisions, business establishments, and a park used by the Socially Disadvantaged. Several years of the same Bitch, moan and guess what, No more range. The kicker to this one is since the land is contaminated with lead it is unusable for any other purpose and sits idle and unkempt.

    Almost done. Another few years and my shooting is (was) done at an indoor range, again privately run and owned by the local hardware store. No possibility of stray rounds causing damage to surrounding establishments. Enter a new tactic. Hardware store owner ( A long time RKBA advocate) dies.
    Surviving owners are contacted by Insurance carriers who state they will no longer sell Liability Ins to the store as long as the range is operable. Looking at the bottom line, outrageous Insurance rates Vs. Extra storage space and presto, chango, and no more range.

    My closest place to shoot is now an outdoor range, approximately 40 minutes from home. Closest indoor range is approx 1 hour away. For a diehard like myself this just represents one more obstacle to overcome to satisfy my craving for the smell of "Bluedot in the Morning".

    I do wonder how many new or potentially new shooters would persevere and how many would simply decide the hassle was not worth it and find a new interest, less restricted, and thereby join the ranks of those who see no reason to own something they can't use.

    One final comment. I did a little check into how easy it would be to open an indoor range here in Central Florida, and my conclusion was that if I was a 21 year old, I might finally satisfy all the Regulations and permit requirements of the Fed, State, and local Govts. by retirement time. In a nutshell, every time a range closes, we lose and the Antis win.
     
  18. BamBam-31

    BamBam-31 Member

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    Just came back from another great day at the SGVGC. After speaking to Jim, the Rangemaster, things don't look quite as bleak. He says the attorney they've hired is also "up there in politics," which can't be a bad thing. They've also hired a PR guy to help promote the benefits of the range (LEO's have their own private section to train on, Brinks Security also uses the range for training, there's a Junior Marksmanship program, etc.). It was kinda hard to hear everything Jim said over the gunfire, but the general impression I got was that it's going to be very difficult for the City Council follow through with their plan to close down the range.

    He also mentioned something about CA having a law that protects gun ranges from just this type of thing. Apparently, it's been in effect since the Pete Wilson days. Maybe this is the same law F4GIB is referring to, eh? Either way, this is a Good Thing.

    I'm feeling a bit better now. Yesterday, it was RAGE!!! :fire: , like Michael Moore on Nov. 3, but today it's more of an ambivalent :scrutiny: . Keep your fingers crossed, eh?
     
  19. confinedbythecurtain

    confinedbythecurtain Member

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    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

    I cant believe this!!!! I love the San Gabriel gun club range. I dont know of any other trap shooting ranges in the area. Man I loved the trip up the 605 to the range. I really hope this doesnt happen. Shooters in SoKal already have to put up with bs gun control laws, now this???!!! This is such a bummer! Now I have to spend a small fortune to shoot at LAX range (unless any of you THR brothers or sisters have another outdoor range suggestion in the LA county area). :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :fire: :banghead: :( :mad:
     
  20. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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  21. confinedbythecurtain

    confinedbythecurtain Member

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    Thanks Sawdust, I love checking out new ranges. Im picking up my SKS next Tues, so Ill try it out at Oak Tree Club. :D
     
  22. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    Oak Tree will satisfy your trap shooting urges, but they do not have a rifle range (they do have a pistol range, though; see their website).

    Angeles is the place for you and your SKS...

    Sawdust
     
  23. wolf

    wolf Member

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    oak tree is nice...

    but it can be expensive...bring your own ammo...i think its up to $16 a day now to use the range...and there is no cheap ammo there...$11-13 for basic 9mm ball ammo that you can get for $7-9 on line ... and rentals are pricy as well...but oaktree is a very nice range..and not to be there too much longer...as they are developing the area at a rapid pace...so i am enjoying it as much as i can .. the LAX range for me is useless. :confused: ...way too loud if there are several shooters...and too confined...

    enjoy oaktree

    wolf
     
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