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Claire Wolfe is full of it.

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Zundfolge, Aug 14, 2005.

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  1. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."

    - Claire Wolfe, 101 Things to Do 'Til the Revolution



    We've all seen this quote ... hell, I've used it on numerous occasions ... its pithy, funny, sounds a little "dangerous" and "revolutionary" without actually being a call for revolution or murder (so its "safe" from the thought police).


    But lately I've come to believe that its nothing more then Bovine Scat.

    This "Awkward Stage" she speaks about doesn't exist ... at least not in the minds of those who love liberty.

    In reality there is not step or "stage" between "Working within the system" and "shooting the bastards" ... once its too late to work within the system then it is time to start shooting the bastards ... the only interim step between that end of work within the system and the shooting is the time it takes to load a few magazines and drive to where the politicians are.


    I, for one, do NOT think its time to start shooting the bastards ... the GOP (while not perfect) is still a place where liberty minded people have some hope of stemming the tide of the coming police state and I'm tired of all the Republican bashing that goes on here (especially by you LP types who have had more then three decades to make a difference but have done nothing but smoke a few bowls and whine about the "religious right").

    I will concede that George W. Bush is NOT the ideal pro-RKBA Republican that most of us here would like to see, but just because HE sucks doesn't mean that the entire party is lost ... that we're nothing more then Republicrats and Democlans.


    I look at the state of RKBA in America in the last decade ... a decade ago we were all 100% sure that the AWB would be permanent, that the Dems and the Anti-Gun movement where going to blitzkrieg us in the legislatures and courtrooms of America.

    That has not happened ... the AWB died (and in retrospect had zero chance of renewal ... despite GWB's claim that he'd sign it), the latest "LProtection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act" made it relatively unmolested through the Senate (yes its too early to claim victory there, but it would have been unheard of a decade ago).

    One can make the argument that the last two presidential elections where lost by the DNC in part because of their anti-gun and anti-freedom positions.

    In issues other then guns, despite the abominable Kelo ruling, states across the US are gearing up to pass strict limits on eminent domain.



    No, things aren't perfect in America, but I'm not convinced that positive change can't be made via the system ... and to those who think they cannot; why aren't you killing people yet?!
     
  2. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    You're absolutely right. We've actually got a shot at winning this thing WITHOUT shots fired.

    It's gonna get rough though.

    We're getting due for an economic crash..."great depression" all over again, possibly worse than the '30s. We'll get through it, but it'll happen and I'm wondering how it'll affect our rights.

    *Might* actually help. The "war on drugs" might get too expensive to deal with and if we give up on that it'll be a huge help across the board: government spending, liberties, you name it.

    Notes on a depression: it could happen a lot of ways: rising oil prices is a top contender but the US housing market is now as overblown as the dot-com thing was. China's economy is on WAY shaky ground (go read about their banking system!). Then there's the unfunded pension debt of too many really big companies ranging from airlines to the automotive sector - Ford and GM are hanging on by a thread. A GM bankruptcy alone ($300bil!) would be crippling.

    The worst news is that if such a depression happens soon, Bush's ridiculous economic policies could cripple the GOP for decades. At that point, we'll have to hope that the "Dean wing" of the Democratic party wins out over the "Clinton/McAuliff wing". It's very much worthwhile to understand that the Dems are really having a quiet internal fight from hell across a lot of fronts including guns, electronic voting, foreign policy, economic policy.
     
  3. Baba Louie

    Baba Louie Member

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    At the Federal Level, Unless you can provide votes or $$$, it has always been too late to work within our system. At least since the Railroads, one of the USA's first major corporate business structures, began doing business the "Good Old American" way. Soon to be followed by the Unions that sprang up to counteract the Robber Baron mentality.

    What does it cost to become a US Senator?
    A Congressman?
    How about President?

    Are the majority of those elected to Federal Office, really representative of the average citizen? Are they the BEST we've got or just the most ambitious, power-wise? (rhetorical)

    Getting down to the state or lower levels, where much of the damage begins (see Feinstein, D., S.F. Mayor) it is still possible to work within the system... thank goodness for the grassroots level.

    Then there's the whole rural/urban thing. One dominating the other vote-wise, while the other just produces the food or mines the ore out there in Never Never Land... Hmmm. That's food for thought. (bad pun not intended... heck it may not be a pun at that)

    Remember, the original colonists put up with a lot... until the morning of April 19 1775. That was when they acted to actually shoot the bas... well you know.
     
  4. Third_Rail

    Third_Rail Member

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    Jim March, +1 on the economic crash. It'll happen within my lifetime, for certain.




    "Where do we go from here? That, my friend, is entirely up to you."
     
  5. Third_Rail

    Third_Rail Member

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    Bump. Does no-one else have any input?
     
  6. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    I know ... I expected to be called on the carpet by several of the Libertarians here ... well it is Sunday, maybe they are all at church (no I couldn't type that with a straight face :neener: )
     
  7. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

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    A great economic collapse might lead to more self reliance in place of reliance on the government. Old age pension and SS type issues are going to be a huge problem in the next 10-20 years.

    I think people largely perceive that they are on their own already. Getting from a stable here to a stable there is going to be the challenge.
     
  8. pax

    pax Member

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    http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/1797/landmine.htm

    The link is to an oldie-but-goodie from Claire Wolfe. After you've read it, in toto, we can discuss whether George Bush is all that is wrong with the Republican party.

    pax
    who has never even seen a bowl let alone smoked one, and who considers herself part of the "religious right."

    You want a friend in Washington? Get a dog. -- Harry S Truman
     
  9. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

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    Youre female?
     
  10. Third_Rail

    Third_Rail Member

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    :D

    Yes, she is last time I heard.


    Any surgical updates, pax? :neener:
     
  11. pax

    pax Member

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    Last time I looked, yes. ;)

    pax

    I'm not offended by all the dumb blonde jokes because I know I'm not dumb ... and I also know that I'm not blonde. -- Dolly Parton
     
  12. pax

    pax Member

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    :D :D Ok, that was a funny simul-post.

    No surgical updates!

    pax
     
  13. Brett Bellmore

    Brett Bellmore Member

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    Actually, we're at that awkward stage where it's too late to work within the system, but too early for forum administrators to admit that we really ought to be talking about shooting the bastards. :neener:
     
  14. Chris Rhines

    Chris Rhines Member

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    Because I'm not going to fight until and unless I have a chance of winning.

    - Chris
     
  15. Zrex

    Zrex Member

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    When the candidates for major public offices are equally abhorrent and the only reason to cast a vote is because you hate someone less than the other candidate, then it’s too late to work within the system. When your "freedom of choice" is choosing one variety of statist thug over a different variety of statist thug, it is too late to work within the system. When you have two candidates that agree on 90% of the issues, only differing in the degree to which they emphasize them, it is too late to work within the system. When the Supreme Court issues ruling after ruling which is unjust, unfair, and against the principles this country was founded on, it is too late to work within the system.

    What advantage is there to participating in a rigged election? (Rigged in the sense that either candidate is going to screw you over in one way or another?) Why would anyone in their right mind vote for someone or support an organization that is working against their best interests?

    At one time, I and/or my company belonged to about a dozen organizations which would march up to Washington and lobby congress about various things. At one time, I used to vote because I thought it mattered. I have since let my membership in ALL organizations lapse except for one, and I have stopped voting because I am not going to be an accomplice to the garbage that is going on in Washington. By participating in an election, you are consenting to the outcome. I do not consent to what is going on, period. I have stopped participating with the government thuggery and bureaucratic nonsense as much as I legally can.

    For me, it is too late to work within the system, but it is definitely too early to shoot the bastards.
     
  16. atek3

    atek3 Member

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    BS... if we had an economic meltdown, the instant response from the chattering classes would be for the government to "DO SOMETHING"... and as before both parties would fight to see who could impose stupid populist measures like New Deal fastest.
     
  17. Zrex

    Zrex Member

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    Exactly - look at the great depression and see what happened - look at the government we got as a result. Everytime there is a big downturn in the economy, the gov't gets more imposing, not less.
     
  18. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

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    I think most of the public is only as complacent as it is because the government has very little impact on our day to day lives. Sure, I pay taxes, but its not like I can catch the tax man dipping into my pockets and shoot him like a common thief.

    The real question is not whether or not bastards should be shot, but who are the bastards? I got up on my roof and looked around with binoculars and I didnt see any. I kept an eye out on the way too and from work and I didnt see any then either. Where are they?
     
  19. pax

    pax Member

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    Beerslurpy ~

    [psychic mode on]Your daily commute doesn't take you past city hall, or past the state capitol building, or into Washington DC.[end psychic mode]

    Note I'm not advocating shooting the bastards. I'm just answering the question, "Who are the bastards?"

    pax
     
  20. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

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    Well the Florida State govt doesnt really do much that I find that offensive. We have no income tax, low property taxes and pretty liberal gun laws.

    The local code enforcement guys are supposedly a pain (according to my painter) but I have never asked them for permission to do anything and never been harassed for anything I supposedly did. A few years ago I once got a note informing me my grass was too high, but that is it.

    I'm not even sure the local government is elected, although they probably dont go to great lengths to publicize the fact if they are.

    I never drive within shooting distance of DC. What am I supposed to do about Ted Kennedy or Diane Feinstein? <>Bill Nelson is up for reelection and I am 90 percent sure we will do a good job of firing him this next year. He is strongly anti-gun and a big government socialist. I am curious how he avoided getting canned in 2000.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2005
  21. chas_martel

    chas_martel Member

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    I think Mr. Rhines hit the nail on the head.

    And I also think it is WAY too late to do anything "significent" by voting
    or other similar means. In my opinion, those of you that think
    this country will be "resurrected" by voting are kidding yourselves.
     
  22. Augustwest

    Augustwest Member

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    Setting aside for the moment that the title of this thread isn't very "High Road," and takes a shot at a warm, smart voice for freedom...

    Until such time as the sheep in this country wake up and realize what's been done to them, taking up arms would be foolhardy. While the time might come when I'd be willing to put it all on the line, that time ain't now. Not enough support among the masses...
     
  23. fallingblock

    fallingblock Member

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    I hope that you are right there, beerslurpy!

    "<>Bill Nelson is up for reelection and I am 90 percent sure we will do a good job of firing him this next year. He is strongly anti-gun and a big government socialist. I am curious how he avoided getting canned in 2000."
    *********************************************************

    I like the idea of working to improve the Republican Party, 'cause the Democrat folks seem firmly committed to the far left end of the political spectrum. :rolleyes:
     
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  24. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    I wasn't clear in my original post, but the only objection I have to Mrs. Wolfe is this particular quote ... I didn't mean to imply that everythign she's written is "full of it".

    I guess I should have made that more clear.
     
  25. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

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    Bill Nelson is pretty far left to most of the Democratic party as well. I guess someone got out the Broward County and Miami-Dade vote for him. Right now the democrats in Florida really disorganized and if I remember correctly, recently bankrupt (financially, not just morally). Unless the Republicans completely hose themselves, they should win this one.

    And I dont say this out of any loyalty to the Republican party, but out of hatred for an unapologetic gun grabber and New Dealer who claims to represent Florida, a state whose character is entirely contrary to both those concepts.
     
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