class 111 9mm ID needed

Discussion in 'Firearms Research' started by Mousegun, Oct 14, 2014.

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  1. Mousegun

    Mousegun Member

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    Friend with a class 111 tag asked me about a 9mm machine gun with a crown logo and a "C" under the crown on the frame.

    Those are the only makings he saw on the gun.

    Anyone have a handle on what the manufacturer is or any other information?

    Thanks
     
  2. Jim K

    Jim K Member.

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    A WAG, but maybe the Swedish Carl Gustav Kulsprutepistol 45 submachinegun, aka KP-45 or "K-pist" or "K-gun". In the 1960's, the Swedes unloaded some on the market and although they were supposed to go only to non-combatant countries (per Swedish law), a lot turned up in places like Vietnam in the hands of American contractors and intelligence folks. I knew a man who carried one - he worked for a computer company and was not authorized to have a U.S. issue weapon. An excellent submachinegun, and quite well made. More information at:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gustav_m/45

    Maybe I shouldn't ask, but how did a Class 3 dealer obtain a submachinegun without it being properly identified on the paperwork?

    Jim
     
  3. Mousegun

    Mousegun Member

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    I may have made a mistake in my terminology. The person I was speaking of has a license to own a machine gun and that is what I meant by a class 3 tag. I don't know what the proper terminology is, I was under the assumption, "class 3 tag was proper."

    He told me he saw the gun on display somewhere and wanted to find out more about it.

    Thanks for your reply.
     
  4. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    You must admit though, any person with a Class 3 license would, or at least should be well versed in that stuff so much that you should be the one Asking him what it was he looked at.

    Seriously!

    A serious student of sub-machine guns with a license to own one should be able to tell at a glance what it was.

    rc
     
  5. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Hold up -- GUYS: There IS NO LICENSE TO OWN A MACHINE GUN.

    A "Class 3 License" is actually a "Special Occupational Tax, Class 3" which is paid to allow a Federal Firearms License holder (a gun DEALER) SELL machine guns, silencers, short-barreled rifles and shotguns, destructive devices, and "AOWs."

    (Similary, a SOT Class 2 allows an FFL manufacturer to MAKE those items.)

    Mousegun, if your friend legally owns a machine gun, all that means is that he filed a "Form 4" (BATFE form 5320.4) to transfer that firearm to him and register it as his in the federal NFA registry. There is no license involved and each new NFA items must be individually registered.

    All that said, just because someone owns a machine gun lawfully doesn't make them any kind of expert in anything.
     
  6. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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  7. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Phone cameras are so common that it should be easy to take a picture of something you want identified or discussed. A real camera for fine detail like proof and maker's marks, sure; but a phone will show the general configuration. Enough to tell a Carl Gustav from a Patchett, for sure.
     
  8. Mousegun

    Mousegun Member

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    QUOTE]Hold up -- GUYS: There IS NO LICENSE TO OWN A MACHINE GUN.

    A "Class 3 License" is actually a "Special Occupational Tax, Class 3" which is paid to allow a Federal Firearms License holder (a gun DEALER) SELL machine guns, silencers, short-barreled rifles and shotguns, destructive devices, and "AOWs."

    (Similary, a SOT Class 2 allows an FFL manufacturer to MAKE those items.)

    Mousegun, if your friend legally owns a machine gun, all that means is that he filed a "Form 4" (BATFE form 5320.4) to transfer that firearm to him and register it as his in the federal NFA registry. There is no license involved and each new NFA items must be individually registered.

    All that said, just because someone owns a machine gun lawfully doesn't make them any kind of expert in anything.
    __________________
    -- Sam[/QUOTE]

    Now that clears it up for me anyhow. As mentioned, I didn't know the exact terminology and thought it was "class 3" He does not have a class 3. He just filed the form 5320.4.

    Sorry for any confusion due to lack of knowledge on my part but now I know what the difference is and yes, not everyone that has filed that form knows everything about all guns.

    It is a gun he just saw and asked me about. I went to this forum knowing it is a wealth of information to try to get some of it for him.
     
  9. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    :) Well, my money would be on the Swedish K. You could easily google up some pics of one and ask him if that looks like the gun he saw.
     
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