Cleaning after every shot

[milemaker13]

Shot my .50 BP rifle today using 3f goex. I had some trouble ramming the ball home so i went ahead and brushed the bore after every shot. That certainly made ball slip down easier. It also produced a lot of charcoal dust which then had a habit of clogging my nipple so had to pull that often as well.
Fyi- i build this gun maybe 25 yrs ago as a kid and as such has seen its share of corrosion over the years. As a result the bore is not in the best condition it could (should) be in.
I cannot remember needing to do this in the past shooting 2f goex and pyrodex. I use the yellow greased patches and have been using bore butter after cleaning for several years now.

I know BP can be dirty and its not a big issue for me to brush every shot or two... but I've been watching a show set during the revolution and it got me thinking how those guys kept their guns running beyond the first couple shots. Later during the civil war as well..

What was the common practice when muzzle loaders were the only firearms around?

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Can't speak for anyone during the civil war but as to my experience I use pine oil, as in Pinesol for a patch lube, it cleans a little on the way down the bore and seems to work as a lube. I have done a full days shooting at rendezvous with both flinters and cap guns with no problems with fouling. Clean up is also easier. Everyone and his brother will have their own personal lubes and methods so gather as much info as you can and figure out what does the best for you.

 

[Slamfire]

I know BP can be dirty and its not a big issue for me to brush every shot or two... but I've been watching a show set during the revolution and it got me thinking how those guys kept their guns running beyond the first couple shots. Later during the civil war as well..

From what I have read, it seems there is a bit of a dispute whether Minie balls were greased or not. What was presented was convincing enough for me to believe that issue ammunition was not greased. I have read enough memoirs that Civil War Soldiers had great difficulty ramming balls before their bullet pouch was out. The typical combat load was 60 rounds. Sam Watkins was at the Dead Angle of Kennesaw mountain, I recall reading he he fired 120 rounds that day, and that was exceptional. I don't know if he used the same musket, might not.

My Minie ball musket, I grease the heck out of the slug. I add grease to the bottom and more if needed. Still, in about 20 rounds, I have to clean the barrel out as fouling has made ramming the ball difficult.

 

[milemaker13]

So what do you think the problem today was? Hmmm... the pinesol thing sounds good in theory as a cleaner...

 

[Noz]

If you have 50 shooters on the line there will be 54 or 55 recommended lube formulas and at least that many methods of application and quantity applied.
Of course, MY method is correct.

 

[milemaker13]

And what be yer method Mr. Noz?

 

[MEHavey]

RB: Lube is either spit dampened patch, or dried 1:7 cutting oil:water
Spit dampened patch down & up between shots.

Minnie: 3:1 Crisco:beeswax, dipped 2x
See https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5548108&postcount=6
Fire continuously/never wipe

 

[Armored farmer]

Hoppes bp bore cleaner and patch lube is my favorite.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I cannot remember needing to do this in the past shooting 2f goex and pyrodex. I use the yellow greased patches and have been using bore butter after cleaning for several years now.

I know BP can be dirty and its not a big issue for me to brush every shot or two... but I've been watching a show set during the revolution and it got me thinking how those guys kept their guns running beyond the first couple shots. Later during the civil war as well..

OK well first, unless you have a huge advantage using 2Fg in your fifty, switch to the cleaner burning 3Fg.
Next, on the range, consider using spit patch, not grease. You will still probably have to swab after every second or third shot, but use some of the left-over, damp patches from the spit-lube.
As for keeping the guns in the Revolution running, well there is a huge difference when using undersized ball in a paper container with a musket, vs. a patched ball in a rifle, using a greased patch. And there were three drawbacks for the riflemen in the AWI..., loading was a bit slower, they had no bayonets, and they had to swab every few shots. The stand-off distance given by the rifles was what kept them alive and able to back off and swab or reload, and avoid musket men closing into musket range, if not charging with bayonets.

LD

 

[Venom007]

OK well first, unless you have a huge advantage using 2Fg in your fifty, switch to the cleaner burning 3Fg.
Next, on the range, consider using spit patch, not grease. You will still probably have to swab after every second or third shot, but use some of the left-over, damp patches from the spit-lube.
As for keeping the guns in the Revolution running, well there is a huge difference when using undersized ball in a paper container with a musket, vs. a patched ball in a rifle, using a greased patch. And there were three drawbacks for the riflemen in the AWI..., loading was a bit slower, they had no bayonets, and they had to swab every few shots. The stand-off distance given by the rifles was what kept them alive and able to back off and swab or reload, and avoid musket men closing into musket range, if not charging with bayonets.

LD

Sounds like conjecture on your part. There is no evidence they swabbed every few shots. They most likely used a looser ball and cloth combo. Swabbing between shots and tight ball loads is a modern thing.

 

[milemaker13]

Dave- what is AWI?
Huh, i know spit patch is traditional... but i guess i thought the yellow greased patches were better.

My BP shooting is limited. I put this gun together from a kit and bring it out now and again for fun at the range. I really like it and would like to do it more often.

Would you guys recommend going with a modern substitute when i purchase more powder? If so, which is preferred? I've used pryodex and 2f just because thats what i started with. I used 3f yesterday since i had it (from dads cap n ball revolvers). It shot well... just the fouling issue.

Do you guys all clean in soapy water? I started this years ago, followed after drying with bore butter. At first i cleaned using nitro and oil like modern cartridge guns.

 

[MEHavey]

1. Stay w/ real BP if you possibly, possibly, possibly can.

2. Clean with hot soapy dish-soap water. It washes right out. Easier than smokeless quite frankly.

3. Preserve/protect with gun oil/BreakFree or the like.
....DO NOT USE BOREBUTTER FOR PROTECTION.

 

[milemaker13]

Whys that MEHavey?

 

[MEHavey]

Bore Butter is nothing but olive/vegetable oil (maybe with a very little beeswax for consistency) and food-coloring/wintergreen thrown in for appearance/taste.
Great for BP lube shooting ingredients, but does absolutely nothing for steel protection against any adverse environmental conditions -- especially over time.

In rapidly descending order:

- RemOil (actually displaces water as well as preserves)
- BreakFree/LPS products (Still my general-use Go-To)
- 30-Weight Synthetic

Don't let anyone tell you that these regular oils will foul up BP weapons. They won't when used as after-action preservation.
Just dry-patch out as normal before shooting the next session downstream.

 

[milemaker13]

Thank you for the explanation. I accept what you say.

Now, why the preference for real BP over subs? Not questioning the validity, just curious your reasons.

 

[MEHavey]

BP is faster/easier to ignite (which makes it problematic for run-of-the-mill sellers who have to keep it stored in separate facilities/bunkers.)
But that very characteristic makes it perfect for sidelock, ...and absolutely essential for flint applications.





... besides.....

I hate the smell of Pyrodex in the morning.

 

[JeffG]

For my shooting, I keep a cleaning of clean flannel cloth moistening in my mouth while shooting or hunting. I use that patch to wipe fouling between shots, sometimes every shot. This makes it easier to ram home the next ball. Rather than getting the "uh oh" half way down the bore, I like to be sure I can ram it home without trouble. I use patch lube of my own recipe made from beeswax and olive oil.

After cleaning always store with a preservative oil in the bore. I frequently use olive oil. If the gun is going to be stored for a period of time, wipe the bore out every 3 days for two weeks, and make sure that the bore is clean. Replace oil when wiping to store the gun. Remove preservative oil with dry patches before shooting.

 

[robhof]

Shot my .50 BP rifle today using 3f goex. I had some trouble ramming the ball home so i went ahead and brushed the bore after every shot. That certainly made ball slip down easier. It also produced a lot of charcoal dust which then had a habit of clogging my nipple so had to pull that often as well.
Fyi- i build this gun maybe 25 yrs ago as a kid and as such has seen its share of corrosion over the years. As a result the bore is not in the best condition it could (should) be in.
I cannot remember needing to do this in the past shooting 2f goex and pyrodex. I use the yellow greased patches and have been using bore butter after cleaning for several years now.

I know BP can be dirty and its not a big issue for me to brush every shot or two... but I've been watching a show set during the revolution and it got me thinking how those guys kept their guns running beyond the first couple shots. Later during the civil war as well..

What was the common practice when muzzle loaders were the only firearms around?

How does a snug cleaning patch go down your bore? Smooth or like down a saw blade? If smooth, I can't help, if rough then some bore polishing is in order; some polishing compound and snug patches and some exercise while watching your favorite program. I fire lapped all my modern guns after trying it on one and got better accuracy and much easier cleaning, also did all my B/P revolvers and used the compound on my smoke poles with the patch as mentioned above, when a snug dry patch moves fairly smoothly down the bore you are done, longer time between fowling build up and easier cleaning. My compound was from a kit I got from LBT, I ordered more compound as I found out how well it polishes and ended up using it on all my rifled guns.

 

[milemaker13]

Id say rougher than it should.. if i brush the bore between shots , my next patched ball goes in smoothly. If not, it is very rough indeed.

As to a snug cleaning patch itself? In a dry bore? I cant say.. i will check that when i have a moment.

What compound did you say you used? I think polishing could help me. I know my bore is rougher than it should be..

 

[MEHavey]

This is an AND-Gate problem:

- If your patches are going down smoothly in a clean bore...
.....AND.....
- If your patched aren't being cut up as they come out of the barrel (still in one piece)...

THEN...

You don't have a bore/roughness problem.





Just run a spit-dampened patch down and out between shots/loadings and you'll be fine.

 

[rodwha]

AWI = American War of Independence.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

They most likely used a looser ball and cloth combo. Swabbing between shots and tight ball loads is a modern thing.

Considering that such is conjecture on your part.....,

I've actually done both, and found that to reliably hit a standing, man sized target at 100 yards, you can "get away" with a looser fitting ball, but..., you still need to swab about every third shot, as sometimes you will get "lucky" and be able to seat the fourth shot, and other times, the ball will jam. Now I could and did go with an even looser fitting combination, but couldn't hit that target.

However, IF you load so that you can hit that same target at 200 yards (which revolutionary war riflemen are well documented as regularly doing...,) you do need a snug fit. Now one can drop an unpatched ball into a rifle, as well, which I've also tested, and low and behold you can hit a target at 50 yards, but not at 100.

Meanwhile, the musket men were firing as many as two dozen rounds while using very undersized ball, and yes, I've experimented with that too.

NOW, my experiments were with modern made black powder, with much better controls for purity, so it is (based on reports about gunpowder written in the 18th century) almost certain that the soldiers, musket men and riflemen, used dirtier powder than I used when testing. So the muskets would've fouled quicker.

OH wait..., so would have the rifles....

LD

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Dave- what is AWI?
Huh, i know spit patch is traditional... but i guess i thought the yellow greased patches were better.

My BP shooting is limited. I put this gun together from a kit and bring it out now and again for fun at the range. I really like it and would like to do it more often.

Would you guys recommend going with a modern substitute when i purchase more powder? If so, which is preferred? I've used pryodex and 2f just because thats what i started with. I used 3f yesterday since i had it (from dads cap n ball revolvers). It shot well... just the fouling issue.

Rodwha beat me to it..., AWI is as he wrote, American War of Independence, because while the concepts that formed our nation were "Revolutionary", and still are, they didn't have those as a foundation for their fight during the war, and they were fighting to break away, not change the mother-government. Plus Americans didn't act like a lot of other countries, France or Russia for example during those revolutions, so some like to use AWI. You can use Revolution or Rev War if you wish..., not a big deal.

You can keep using those patches. If the rifle shoots well then no reason to change, just swab after every two shots.

You can clean with soapy water. A lot of guys use a quart of cold water, and add a single drop of dishwashing liquid for hand washing dishes. Cold, because some folks have noticed that hot water causes "flash rust" as it dries, and the single drop of soap because it lowers the surface tension of the plain water.

Some use WD-40 after drying the bore, and some use rubbing alcohol (minimum 70%) to follow the first drying patch, then dry again, then they use a good rust preventative. Barricade, Remington Oil, any of the rust preventatives for guns are good.

I always check my gun or rifle the following evening after cleaning and putting it away, and then again a couple days later, just to ensure I got all the water out. I live in a very humid area.

Go with black powder unless you either can't get it, or there is some law that prevents you from having it in your dwelling.

LD

 

[milemaker13]

Thanks LD.

 

[paul harm]

I think if you go to Friendship and watch the rifle shooters shoot targets you'll find they wipe after every shot. Many of the pistol shooters when shooting the percussion or flint matches also wipe after every shot. Even when shooting a " woods walk " wiping between shots is done. You can use the same cleaning spit patch for many shots, just stick it under your ramrod if in the woods, or lay it on the bench if bench shooting. You're more or less making the bore the same for every shot - it's fowled but not so bad the next ball won't go down. After 8 or 10 shots a new one is used. It's how I and everyone I knew did it for the 20 or so years I shot at events or competition. If you're shooting a timed event where fast shooting is demanded another method would be necessary. Hot soapy water to clean when done and Rem-oil to preserve.