Cleaning?

[HoosierHunter128]

I bought my son a new Cz 457 Scout, and bought myself a used CZ 452 American 17HMR. We went to the farm today to shoot. I read threads last night until I fell asleep trying to decide if I need to break in his new barrel. And also if I need to clean mine before and after. After all that reading, I did absolutely nothing.

I put a Leupold Freedom Rimfire 3-9x40. Wish I would have went higher than a 9 power.

After I got the scopes sighted in, I shot 5 shot groups of 5 different types of ammo from each, and I'm pretty happy with the results.

I will post my results in a few minutes after i get pics from my phone.

My question is this: I didn't clean his new .22 rifle at all, and it performed really well. The best group was with CCI Small Game, 5 shots @ .349 inch shooting at 50 yards.

I didn't clean the used 17 HMR at all, and shot 5 shots at .661 inch at 50 yards with CCI Max. Should I clean these barrels?

Should I clean every 500-1000 rounds like I've heard others suggest?

Should I treat the new Scout differently than the used 17HMR? Is it because its used vs new, or is it the difference between a 17HMR and a .22?

I clean my centerfires after every firing session, or if I shoot when hunting. I'm reconsidering this. I may never again use a copper wire except for in my muzzleloader.

What do you guys think? Is breaking in a barrel unnecessary, and a plot to sell more barrels? Is it just folklore passed down? Hard to believe I could shoot this well without doing anything.

This is my first step into the rimfire world; I'm teaching my kid to squirrel hunt before he gets to fire on a whitetail...crawl before you walk.

Should I run a cloth through these barrels or not...what do you think?

 

[HoosierHunter128]

Here’s a pic of his new rifle, the CZ Scout .22. The best group I shot out of his rifle at 50 yds was with CCI Small game. .569 - .22 = .349

 

[HoosierHunter128]

Here’s a pic of my new/used 2003 CZ 452 American 17 HMR. My best 5 shot group at 50 yards was with CCI Vmax. I need to shoot at 100 & 200 too. Just didn’t have time today. Best group with it was .781 - .17 = .611

 

[HoosierHunter128]

I'd love to hear some comparative evidence of folks that have cleaned one every time, and left another uncleaned, and has a real comparative between the two...

 

[troy fairweather]

I only do a good cleaning when accuracy goes away, but do a damp patch after shooting for the day.

 

[Obturation]

No clear answer.
I have a winchester 250 in 22lr and I think it's from the late 60s or early 70s and has been shot a lot. The guy I got it from about 10 years ago was the original owner and told me in all seriousness that he had never cleaned it. Well I've shot it some too (about 5000 rds) and as the previous owner - never cleaned it. It's accurate and works fine. I don't shoot that rifle for tiny groups though, minute of soup can @50 yards is my standard and it can do that all day long.
My nicer rifles I clean when I'm done shooting but I'm not sure it's required.

 

[HoosierHunter128]

I only do a good cleaning when accuracy goes away, but do a damp patch after shooting for the day.

So you think I should run 1 or two patches through every time. I’ve read on that 17 HMR people say don’t do that. That’s opposite of what I’ve always done. I’ve always at least ran a patch through. Can anyone tell me why I shouldn’t?

 

[jmr40]

I will wipe down the exterior and clean any grime out of the action after every shooting trip. I almost never clean the barrel on a 22. Once every few years unless I get it wet from hunting in the rain etc. I don't clean my centerfire barrels all that often either unless I get them wet.

You will see accuracy start to deteriorate and that is when the barrel needs to be cleaned. With centerfire rifles that could be 100 rounds or 500, it just depends on the individual barrel. Rimfires are probably good for several thousand.

If you clean it right it doesn't hurt, but if you're not careful you'll do more damage than good. I don't like to stick a metal cleaning rod down the barrel any more often than necessary. As long as it's shooting great don't try to fix something that isn't broken.

 

[HoosierHunter128]

No clear answer.
I have a winchester 250 in 22lr and I think it's from the late 60s or early 70s and has been shot a lot. The guy I got it from about 10 years ago was the original owner and told me in all seriousness that he had never cleaned it. Well I've shot it some too (about 5000 rds) and as the previous owner - never cleaned it. It's accurate and works fine. I don't shoot that rifle for tiny groups though, minute of soup can @50 yards is my standard and it can do that all day long.
My nicer rifles I clean when I'm done shooting but I'm not sure it's required.

No... I'm with you, these are for squirrel hunting. But, I do have to say, it is super nice to shoot cheap ammo, and a lot of it, and never have a sore shoulder, and I don't feel the need to put ears on, although I still make my son. I just want to know what I should be doing with these, and really my centerfires too. I've cleaned my centerfires with a brass brush, then cotton after every session for years...not sure I'll do that anymore. Maybe just the wet patch until mirrored looking through, then a dry one. I'm really looking for some experienced shooters to tell me what they've done that has worked well. I'm a hunter, not a plinker, so I'm looking from advise from those that have done both, and shoot a ton. I'd love to hear from someone who has cleaned well, and then also only every 500 like I've heard some say. Thanks for the comment...

 

[HoosierHunter128]

I will wipe down the exterior and clean any grime out of the action after every shooting trip. I almost never clean the barrel on a 22. Once every few years unless I get it wet from hunting in the rain etc. I don't clean my centerfire barrels all that often either unless I get them wet.

You will see accuracy start to deteriorate and that is when the barrel needs to be cleaned. With centerfire rifles that could be 100 rounds or 500, it just depends on the individual barrel. Rimfires are probably good for several thousand.

If you clean it right it doesn't hurt, but if you're not careful you'll do more damage than good. I don't like to stick a metal cleaning rod down the barrel any more often than necessary. As long as it's shooting great don't try to fix something that isn't broken.

Thanks

 

[forty_caliber]

I always clean any firearm (rifle or sidearm) before I store it...ALWAYS...even one round. Bore solvent, bronze brush, patches until they come out clean, followed by an oily patch. Clean and oil all metal surfaces before putting it back in the safe. Never have had any problems following this routine.

Maybe this is right and maybe this is wrong but it is how I was taught to do it as a youngster.

.40

 

[HoosierHunter128]

I always clean any firearm (rifle or sidearm) before I store it...ALWAYS...even one round. Bore solvent, bronze brush, patches until they come out clean, followed by an oily patch. Clean and oil all metal surfaces before putting it back in the safe. Never have had any problems following this routine.

Maybe this is right and maybe this is wrong but it is how I was taught to do it as a youngster.

.40

This is how I was taught too. This is why I am asking... because sooooo many people say not to...

 

[tactikel]

I clean every gun after coming home from range or field. Even a squirt of clp and a bore snake takes 1 minute. My dad was ex-Navy he demanded every firearm be "ship shape".
Is it necessary? My accuracy or reliability will never suffer due to my my inattention. My Dad talking!

 

[HoosierHunter128]

On a side note, found these today too. It’s not too late in indiana...

 

[Slamfire]

Everyone has their own different opinion on cleaning a rimfire barrel.

I will clean my smallbore prone rifle barrels on the second day of a four day match. I can't tell that it makes a difference in accuracy. I have met shooters who never clean their barrels until "the barrel tells them". They have no idea, nor do I, when the barrel communicates this message. The majority of shooters clean their barrel at the end of the day.

After a Regional, I clean the barrel before sticking it in the case to go home. I don't want rust. I clean the barrels on my match rifles before sticking them in the safe, because I don't want rust. I have obsessive behaviors about rust, I grew up in a house next to seawater and everything rusts in that environment. You have to clean, oil, and check for rust later. Equipment requires consistent maintenance in a salt air environment because things rust.

Dad's sailing boat and car.



I will say, keeping the chamber clean from wax fouling is desirable as fouling will create extraction problems. Unlike Anschutz rifles, I clean these BSA Martini Internationals after every match because the chamber fouls and the cases won't eject from the loading port. The ejector is spring loaded and if the chamber is clean, the case is ejected a country mile. But as the round count goes up, I have to pluck cases that never cleared the action.

 

[Skeptic13]

I always run patches with Ballistol down the barrel of a new gun before I shoot it. First I want to make sure that there isn't any debris in the barrel and Ballistol is a penetrating oil that helps protect the barrel. I do not clean my barrel every time I shoot it but I do clean them 5-6 times a year. If I lived in a more humid climate I would probably run oil down the barrel more frequently. I think it is easier to keep a clean barrel if you clean them routinely. As far as cleaning 22 the only rifle I have is a 10/22. It gets very dirty and needs to be cleaned IMO. Maybe the bolt action 22s don't have the same problem. Don't know.

 

[film495]

What would make a rimfire barrel different than taking care of any other barrel? Maybe .22s were just kind of considered throw away disposables back in the day, use them up and get a new one?

 

[Demi-human]

All the .22 rimfire ammunition I have ever seen, even the copper washed, has wax lube on the bullets. This doesn’t build up in the bore usually to become a problem for accuracy. It takes many more rounds than one would think.
(The seventeens and the 22 Mag are different, jacketed beasts...)

What it will do is coat the bore in waterproof wax, keeping it nice and shiny. Even some of the rustiest barn rifles have pristine bores. (Some, not all. Abuse is abuse.)
Rimfire rifles need to be cleaned, just not like centerfire.
Cleaning the wax out every time removes the perfectly laid-in protectant, just to replace it with oil that will run out.
Not to mention the increase wear from excessive cleaning.

However, I do clean before I ever use the barrel. Factories have shavings in them. Sometimes they stick...
A nice clean bore will take the lube better.

It isn’t that they’re disposable, it that they’re so durable, while at the same time, the ammunition is so easy on them.
Things weren’t disposable, especially “back in the day”.

 

[Jack B.]

I guess I'm old school . I was taught to clean my firearms every time that I got back from taking them out somewhere weather I fired them or not. If I carried them around some where, like a day of hunting or a range day. When I was done for the day they got cleaned. It's just the way I was taught by all the people that taught me how to shoot and take care of my firearms when I was young. I guess you don't have to if you don't want to.

 

[Demi-human]

It all depends on the cleaning you’re talking about.
If it hasn’t been fired, there isn’t a need for solvents and brushes.
But, walking around in the woods all day, a wipe down and dust off is prudent, even putting a patch down to make sure there’s no dirt or bark from banging any trees.

Usually when I say cleaning, I mean removed from the stock, trigger out, solvents and brushes and single piece rods.

That is not beneficial to hunting again the next day.

I agree with you though, just like our vehicles, there are different levels of clean. And they all get us were we’re going!
(Oops, wrong smiley. There. Where’s my darn glasses?)

 

[rust collector]

I like to remove whatever stuff they leave in the barrel for corrosion control, possibly machining, before firing. After that, my rimfires only receive an occasional anointment unless there are signs of a buildup.

 

[Steve S.]

My firearms experience is that clean/ don’t clean is an opinion and/or a practice but does not fall into the category of necessary. Firearms are tough items that can be kept pristine, sustain honest wear
or be abused and still function well - most cleaning probably falls into the cosmetic category rather than necessity.
I do know that simple “handling” exposes a firearm to the most cosmetic abuse - dings, drops, rubs, abrasion, rust from sweaty hands, etc - the cosmetic side of use. Mechanically with most actions and barrels, cleaning needs are minimal.
I clean my firearms after every outing because I am anal and not because it is needed - I know that about myself, I enjoy a clean firearm and I enjoy the cleaning process - personal choice but nothing near necessity.
Barrel break-in is another category that is subjective to minute accuracy needs and peace of mind. Unless an ultra target shooter with an ultra premium barrel, the common Joe barrel break-in (to me) is an academic practice - the average Joe will never see even the smallest effect of a barrel break-in - again to me, the barrel production quality is the biggest variable..
So clean, don’t clean, break-in, don’t break-in; the opinions will keep coming, Ford or Chevy, blondes or brunettes, half empty or half full - ad nauseam.

 

[Slamfire]

What it will do is coat the bore in waterproof wax, keeping it nice and shiny. Even some of the rustiest barn rifles have pristine bores. (Some, not all. Abuse is abuse.)

Don't trust to luck and assume that 22lr wax will protect the bore. When offered this pistol at a good price, and I did not have a cleaning rod with me, I made the assumption that what I saw in the tube was dirty wax and underneath was a pristine bore.







I was wrong, the interior was like a rusted sewer pipe.

 

[HoosierHunter128]

I just bought the patchworm kit, and accessories for all of my calibers. I also bought ballistol. I've been using Break-Free CLP. Not sure which may be better, but it seems like a lot of you like ballistol.

This seems like the answer for me and my needs. I purchased the Hoppe's Legend Rimfire Cleaning Kit before the guns came in, and it is very cheap and flimsy. I'm afraid to run it through the barrels, its a 3 piece rod. I will probably just keep that kit for the solvents and patches included. I will need a better rod before deep cleaning, when/if I decide to do that. I do have a bore guide, it's made by Tipton I think. Thanks for all of the good advice.

 

[film495]

I don't think there is much chance an aluminum rod or a brass brush can damage a bore, next to none. All I know on this topic is I inherited a few firearms from the 40s and 50s, and when I started going over them, the only ones with pitting in the bores were the ones that did not appear to be put up cleaned - and that was the two .22 rimfires. One bad and one not too bad, but the other barrels look like new in comparison. The two .22s had some fouling and a touch of copper in the bores when I cleaned them, and one had light pitting, the other one was a sewer pipe that I doubt will ever get fired again without a new barrel or sleeve. I just treat them all the same basically, it only takes 10 minutes and I kind of like doing the maintenance.