CMP 1911 Round 3

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by d31tc, Aug 30, 2022.

  1. Mark_Mark
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    Mark_Mark Contributing Member

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    I like 1911’s and would love a old work horse like these to add to my collection, but $1,000 to $1,500 not mentioning the rare auction stuff they find. Why can’t they be $300-$500 and given out with their lottery system. We the people paid to keep and maintain those guns. CMP must be a for profit organization. Shame really.
     
  2. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    Just my take but there are plenty of new shooter grade 1911's on the market. A new Colt, if a person has to have a Colt, will cost about the same as a CMP surplus pistol and shoot better with fewer problems. Lots of these CMP pistols aren't Colt frames anyway. Remington produced a lot more than Colt during WW2. Looks like a new Remington R1 is about $600. That would be my choice for a shooter.

    So as a shooter they aren't a very good deal. And I afraid in a few years they won't be that great of an investment, but I could be wrong. I just have too much time and money to play with. ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2022
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  3. Madcap_Magician

    Madcap_Magician Member

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    I agree if you are solely looking for a 1911 to shoot, even if you want a GI-style 1911, if you are indifferent to the actual history, you could get a Tisas or a Rock Island for under $600 or a Springfield Armory for under $800. If you want a 1911 but with the modern upgrades like sights and upswept beavertail grip safety, you can get it for under $1,000 easily. If you want one that shoots better than a GI gun, then the sky is the limit in boutique and custom makers.

    But, as far as investments go, at some point they will be a good investment, and that could be (and has been so far) as soon as immediately after purchase. Even if the market flatlines, I doubt the market price will go below what the CMP buyers originally paid except for people who are in a rush to sell, and at some point in the next 50 years, it will undoubtedly rise. Resale on GI guns will probably always be better than production guns, so even if they don't increase much in value for a while, resale value will still exceed production guns as a percentage of their purchase value. So as an investment, they're better than any production gun. Even with high-end production or custom guns, you'd lose a greater percentage of the purchase price on resale than with GI guns.
     
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  4. Mark_Mark
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    Mark_Mark Contributing Member

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    I get your point, but with 50-60k being up for lottery @ $1,000+ , that’s $60 million dollars.

    Someone’s getting rich from this organization, do what you want people, but these guns should be redistributed to the people at minimum or no cost. Every American citizen should have a right or change to these guns regardless of their financial situations.
     
  5. d31tc

    d31tc Member

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    The Rand report indicated that as of Sept 2018, the DLA had in possession 90,016 pistols in possession, of which 8,588 were unserviceable:condemned. Also, as of Sept 2018 the DLA had transferred 8,000 pistols to the CMP. That would be a total of about 89,429 serviceable pistols that could be ultimately transferred to the CMP. The DLA transferred 8,000 in FY 2018 and I believe they would have transferred 10,000 pistols per FY to date. That would be 10,000 per year in FY 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2022 for a total of 48,000. FY 2023 begins on October 1, 2022 and I would think they could then transfer another 10,000 pistols for a total of 58,000. I've not read any news that a hold was put on the transfers from DLA to CMP, so I would say this number transferred to the CMP is likely accurate.
     
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  6. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    I think the CMP has to disclose their finances every year. I believe it's a non-profit org. There may be some individuals in the corp that make more than you or me. ;)
     
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  7. d31tc

    d31tc Member

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    Except for the M1911 sales, I actually am not too familiar with the CMP. But as I was looking for the enabling legislation to see what the direction of the DLA=>CMP transfers was and potentially where it is going, I came across a report done by the Rand Corporation An Evaluation of the Corporation for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and Firearms Safety | RAND and the Government Accountability Office. It was a requirement of the enabling legislation to sell surplus 1911's with the trial balloon of the first 8,000 pistols transferred in FY2018. It shows generally shows the finances of the CMP the endowment/profits from the sales of military weapons transferred. The CMP is coming to the end of surplus rifles, and will run out of pistols at some point in the not too distant future. After that they will need to sustain their operations with return on investments from the profits on sales of the surplus weapons and other revenues from affiliated organizations.

    The CMP oversight is chartered by Congress. Also, given the multiple reports and audits required for surplus sales, with that scrutiny and oversight, I don't think it would be possible for someone at the CMP to get unjustly rich off this program. I may be naive, but that's my opinion.

    I also believe the CMP is mandated to sell the surplus weapons at market value (I don't have a direct document that I've read, just hearsay from reading posts on forums). This is somewhat subjective as to the value, as we all know. Some people think $1,000 is too much others think it's a bargain. I think the CMP was definitely erring on the low range of market value that they can justify.

    The original purpose of the DCM, which was created by Congress and which became the CMP, was to provide civilians an opportunity to learn and practice marksmanship skills should they later be called on to serve in the U.S. Military. They are a non profit, but obviously need revenue to operate. The CMP has an endowment of about $188 million as of 2018, the primary source of which is sale of surplus firearms. They use the return on investment to help sustain their operations according to their goals. The report shows their operating costs and revenues. They need the revenue and the endowment to remain viable with their current mandate and programs. If the CMP was mandated to give away the guns away at minimum cost or no cost, the CMP would not be able to operate in the future without reducing their programming. The DCM got funding directly from Congress. The CMP funding, by design of Congress, came mostly from the sales of surplus weapons.
     
  8. Mark_Mark
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    Mark_Mark Contributing Member

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    Well I don’t have much else nice to say about Government & Firearm’s

    I hope it works out for you fellas!
     
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  9. JDeere

    JDeere Member

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    Nobody at CMP is getting rich. Income and expenditures are there for anyone to see. The money goes into support shooting sports. Have you seen the facility they built at Talledega Sportsman park? Open to anyone to enjoy. Matches galore. The Garands are basically gone unless some country in the MAP sends some more home. They are basically building garands on salvaged receivers. When the 1911s are done there will be nothing left to sell. They will have a stash of cash to fund shooting sports for a long time.
     
  10. d31tc

    d31tc Member

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    Last day to have your application post marked.
     
  11. WVsig

    WVsig Member

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    One thing to keep in mind is that CMP if they catch you scalping these guns on GB will ban you from ever buying another gun from them. This will not matter long term but if your intention is to flip it in the short term it is something to consider. This is my first round pistol. I gave it to my father in law for his service in Vietnam. He was a Marine and carried a gun very similar to this one. Colt Frame Remington Rand slide. Oh and the gun shoots. Can hit man sized targets at 50 yards all day long.

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  12. Mark_Mark
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    Mark_Mark Contributing Member

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    they can’t catch you. sell on your 2th cousins brother in-Law’s neighboros account!

    Free Market, if they can get rich selling People’s property, So should you
     
  13. Jimbo80

    Jimbo80 Member

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    [QUOTE="Mark_Mark, post: ]
    Free Market, if they can get rich selling People’s property, So should you[/QUOTE]

    Do yourself a favor....take a few minutes and read up about the CMP.
     
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  14. Madcap_Magician

    Madcap_Magician Member

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    That's good to know, but I would have thought the fact that you could only buy the one 1911 from them would have prevented most of the flipping except for those with extended networks of people doing buying for them, which would of course be straw purchasing even if only done for the profit margin and not for inherently nefarious reasons.

    I've never seen someone so invested in blindly grinding an axe against a party that never appears to have harmed him on a forum where it's unlikely they'll see it to people with so little sympathy for the grinding.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2022
  15. Mark_Mark
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    Mark_Mark Contributing Member

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    Those guns belong to the citizens, They should not be that expensive to transfer back to the people.

    Trailer Joe 6-pack, Iron Worker Tyrone, and burger flipper Jesus, should have the same opportunity to own those gun and not have fork down a paycheck or two.
     
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  16. JDeere

    JDeere Member

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    The 1911 program was setup completely separate from the other program with Garands and such. I get what they are trying to do but scalpers and the likes have been flipping CMP firearms, ammo etc. for years. At this point you are limited to one so if one does not like what they receive then it's theirs so sell it imo. I got one of the very first ones in the first round that looked like the one you received,same ANAD rebuild. I did not like it so I sold it as it is mine to do so. Don't get me wrong I received many a Garand from the CMP back in the day and everyone was a shooter and in excellent to good condition. You win some you lose some...
     
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  17. Nature Boy
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    Nature Boy Contributing Member

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    $1,000 is just a bit too much for me to risk on a blind draw

    And for that reason….

    200w.gif?cid=82a1493b81apyh36s5wuayykoy70tgcsjgikdoubdr0e33k5&rid=200w.gif
     
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  18. Jimbo80

    Jimbo80 Member

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    Did you actually lose money? That's hard to do on CMP resales.
     
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  19. Homerboy

    Homerboy Member

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    None of the guns you mention hung from the hips of American GI’s during three wars and beyond. I’ll take my $1050 service grade Colt frame over anything new. 1911’s are a conversation piece and occasional range toy to me. I’ve put probably 500 rounds through mine. All my own reloads. Not one fail to fire or eject. I don’t need the latest and greatest.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2022
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  20. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    The slides weren't case hardened. Run it hard if you want. :(
     
  21. Homerboy

    Homerboy Member

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    I’m no expert. It’s a 1950’s era Colt slide. But I don’t run it hard. 100 rounds or so at a time. The US Army ran it pretty hard I’m sure and it’s still working 76 years later. I’m not too worried.
     
  22. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    That's a case hardened slide for sure. My service grade Colt slide isn't so no 500 rounds for me. No need. I have another 1911 to shoot. I didn't buy it to shoot anyway.
     
  23. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    210 pages to read https://discover.dtic.mil/
    (now thats a HOT GUN) :rofl:
    20221002_224048.jpg Screenshot_20221002-223510.jpg Starts at Chapter 6 for the 1911s. Screenshot_20221002-234145.jpg

    The first surplus release of 1911 was around 1960s. Matching parts. I paid $ 45 to the guy that bought it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2022
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  24. Steve762us

    Steve762us Member

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    $95 per gun, for test firing?

    What are they shooting, hard cast gold?
     
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  25. JDeere

    JDeere Member

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    No I lost the lottery on this particular piece as it was not one I was happy with. Whether it be Garands or 1911s it's luck of the draw. Some or nice and others not so nice. I suppose you could say "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"...
     
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