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CMP M1 for High Power?

Discussion in 'Competition Shooting' started by MtnCreek, Feb 4, 2011.

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  1. MtnCreek

    MtnCreek Member

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    I'm thinking about trying some NRA High Power. Whould a mid grade CMP M1 do the job? I checked out the CMP web site and they have some good looking rifles for around $800. I'm sure I could re-barrel if I enjoyed High Power. Am I barking up the wrong tree? Also, I checked out the requirments to purchase and that shouldn't be a problem.
    Thanks!
     
  2. coyotehunter223

    coyotehunter223 Member

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    Spending the money on a potentially mediocre shooter and then more to rebarrel it, you may be suited better buying/building an AR15 or something else unless you just want a M1.

    It would more than likely work fine for an intro into the sport, but I would just advise weighing all options before making your mind up.
     
  3. dzelenka

    dzelenka Member

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    You are barking up the wrong tree. It is a bad choice all the way around. A National Match AR-15 is cheaper to purchase (the CMP price for a Service Gradeor even Special Grade is just the beginning. To be remotely competitive, there is a lot of work that needs doing); much more accurate; easier to maintain (no bedding); has better sights; and is cheaper to feed. It is also more forgiving of a bad position; therefore, it is easier to shoot well. There is a reason 98% of service rifle shooters shoot one.

    Do not let my advice make you believe that I don't like M1s or M1As. I have and use both in service rifle competition and can shoot Master scores with them. However, I shoot High Master scores with my ARs for less money and hassle. My wood guns are for fun, my ARs are for winning.

    Do yourself a favor and start with an AR. It will make the learning curve easier.
     
  4. fractal7

    fractal7 Member

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    Have you shot high power matches before? If its something you are just considering getting into and not sure you could try a Garand and try to find either John C. Garand Matches locally or vintage rifle matches and shoot in those with a field grade garand (which are usually pretty decent shooters for $495 from the CMP I think) and get your feet wet that way.

    If you do want to do highpower you could easily put together a fantastic rifle for around 1100, or try to find lightly used equipment cheaper. With the savings in ammunition between .223 and 30-06 it would probably pay for itself eventually, not to mention be more competitive.

    So the question is if its something you really want to do, go with the AR, because if you start with a Garand and like it, you're going to end up with a Garand *and* an AR eventually.
     
  5. MtnCreek

    MtnCreek Member

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    Would a higher quality M1 or M1A be competitive with the AR's? I've seen Springfield NM M1A's, but they're pretty costly.

    I have several AR's, but nothing that'll shoot 600 meters. I do have a RRA stripped lower that needs a purpose. I think I also have an A2 buttstock laying around. If I go with an AR, whould it be a standard build, but with a 20" floated barrel?
     
  6. WNTFW

    WNTFW Member

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    I would go back & reread post #3 by Dan Zelenka.

    AR is better all around. The M1 & M1A are great. All are fun. The AR is just the easiest way to go. You could probably get a used NM AR15 for similar money as a Garand. In the long run you would save money on ammo. The recoil is more on a Garand, more powder spent, sights better on AR. I have a Garand & AR. The AR is easier for me to hold. The ergonomics of an AR just work better for me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2011
  7. WNTFW

    WNTFW Member

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    Re post #5
    You could get just get an upper. Combined with the finished lower you would be up & running easily.

    I tend to favor commonality and with all the ARs on the line someone could probably loan you whatever you needed if you had a problem with the rifle at the range. Not the biggest selling point but at least it is not a down side.

    The more I learn about ARs the more I am impressed with them.
     
  8. dzelenka

    dzelenka Member

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    I would say no on the first question, especially for a beginner. I have some very good professionally built M1A and M1 service rifles with Krieger barrels and all of the bells and whistles. There is no getting over the fact that a decent AR will shoot a tighter group and has better sights. The last time I tested my short line load in an AR, it put 10 shots into just under 0.60" at 100 yards. To keep an M1 or M14 shooting at that level (provided you could get one to do so in the first place) would require an armorer on staff (like the military teams used to have when they shot these guns). An AR will shoot like that until the barrel wears out which can then be changed pretty cheaply.

    Look at the White Oak Armament service rifle upper with pinned sights. It costs $750 and is capable of winning at the nationals. If you have a lower, you can build it out. If your budget can stand it, get the Geisselle service rifle trigger for $279. If not, either the Geisselle non adjustable trigger for $179 or a Rock River NM trigger for around $100 are both decent. If you have the lower and buttstock, you could be into a first rate AR-15 service rifle with the best trigger available for about $1100 or so. You will spend a LOT more building a decent M1 or M1A and be less competitive.
     
  9. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    Don't forget about Garand matches!

    The rack-grade Garand will be fine for Garand matches.

    The poodle-shooters win all the other matches.
     
  10. 35 Whelen

    35 Whelen Member

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    What type rifle do you want to shoot? Why do you want to shoot High Power? If you want to shoot and try to win, probably an AR is the way to go. However, if you WANT a Garand and you WANT to shoot a Garand, then get a Garand!! To me, it all boils down to WHY you're going to shoot High Power.

    I shoot because I love to shoot and want to be a better marksman. Personally, I have zero interest in AR's and wouldn't enjoy shooting High Power with one. They bore me to death. Probably because I go to a match and the line is filled with AR's.
    Don't let anyone tell you that have to shoot an AR to do well. 110% not true. There's a gentleman over at the Cast Boolit site (BobS) who is a Distinguished Marksman. He told me that he got his Master classification back in the '70's firing a modified 1903 Springfield shooting cast bullets at 200 and 300 yds., then switching to jacketed for 600.
    I can tell you unhesitantly that the man behind the trigger is far more important than the rifle. For several years now, I've been shooting military bolts rifles extensively at the range here at my house. The Swiss K-31's and the 1903/03A3's I own will all shoot 1 1/2" groups at 100 yds. with the right loads. This is plenty sufficient to hold the "10" ring on an SR-31 target.
    Since I began shooting High Power two years ago, I've been shooting a Swiss K-31. I shoot strictly cast bullets, and I've done some modifications on the rifle. It's crazy accurate and shoots far, far better than I can hold, but I love shooting it. I've attained an Expert classification shooting it and my highest score has been 739-12X.
    At first, all the guys against whom I compete snickered at my rifle and gave me hell about my loads some of which don't quite break the sound barrier. But after 6 months or so, they weren't laughing anymore because I was becoming a serious competitor. After a year had gone by, I began besting many of, and sometimes most of the AR guys!
    Tomorrow, I'm letting one of the other competitors use my K-31. He's a 17 year old kid who already attained a Master classification shooting an AR. He shoots widely at the state level and has been to Camp Perry the last two or three years and done very well. He now wants to shoot a Master score with a bolt rifle. That my friends, is a rifleman in the making. He's learning to shoot well, not just shoot one rifle well. It'll be interesting to see what he can do with a 60 year old rifle, but I think I already know!
    Regarding the Garand, I bought a CMP Garand back in the 90's before they were rating them, so I don't know how it would rate by todays CMP standards. I haven't shot it in a match yet, but I've shot it quite a bit here at the house and even with HXP ammo, I think it'd be a serious threat as it easily groups under 2" at 100 yds. So, I guess it's a crap shoot.

    Again, figure out why you want to shoot; if it's for enjoyment, then shoot a gun that's interesting to you. If it's for the competition, then get YAWN....an AR.;)

    35W
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2011
  11. dzelenka

    dzelenka Member

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    35 Whelen,

    Aren't those K-31s a hoot? I have fired mine at 200 yard reduced course matches but never the full distance. I can shoot a pretty darn good score with one. However, that is for fun. You wouldn't see me on the line at Camp Perry with one.

    Dan
     
  12. 35 Whelen

    35 Whelen Member

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    They are a hoot. I haven't shot one seriously with issues sights yet. I've owned many over the years and they all shot so, so well.
    Here's a few targets from the one (I own three) that I'm currently in love with as well as one that's still as-issued:
    From past matches:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    ..and some targets I shot here at the house:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    35W
     
  13. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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  14. Jon Coppenbarger

    Jon Coppenbarger Member

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    as a few know I love shooting my ar's but I do like to shoot in the garand matches the local clubs have. laid back and lots of fun!
     
  15. dzelenka

    dzelenka Member

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    I managed 2nd place at the National Vintage Military rifle match with one of mine a couple years ago. I came back the following year and crossfired a 10 in slow prone. Even with that I still earned a gold medal. If I had shot my own target, I would have repeated my 2nd place performance. (dang 96 Mauser won it both years) I have 3 of them and 1500 rounds of GP11 so I am set. They are really fine rifles.
     
  16. Pete D.

    Pete D. Member

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    K31

    I have a K31. Please tell me about the rear sight on the gun shown in the pics. Available?

    Pete
     
  17. P-32

    P-32 Member

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    MtnCreek, I say go for it with your M-1. Keep in mind what it is though. One of the nice things about the 30 cal is you will learn how to hang on to the rifle during the rapids.
     
  18. wojownik

    wojownik Member

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    I've used both the AR and M1 Garand in high power matches. I think you'll either start with the AR and then add a Garand to the toolbox, or vice versa.

    Of the two, I enjoy shooting the Garand much more.
     
  19. 35 Whelen

    35 Whelen Member

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    Pete,
    The sight pictured is a Lyman 48FN. It actually takes a little creativity to make it work as the sight was designed to be mounted on the right side of a receiver. A few months ago, I devised an even better and easier way to mount a better sight that being one of the Redfields; either an Olympic, International, or in the case of my rifle, a Palma.
    It simply requires mounting a #46 Weaver scope base to the rear receiver ring. To this mount a Lipski sight base that is available from Brownells. Then it's simply a matter of mounting one of the sights mentioned. Here are some pictures of mine:

    The scope base:
    [​IMG]

    The Lipski sight base:
    [​IMG]

    ...and the sight:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Hope this helps. Let me know if you have more questions.
    35W
     
  20. dzelenka

    dzelenka Member

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    I don't think I could drill into one of my K31 receivers, but an aperture sight would really let that thing perform.
     
  21. hvactech

    hvactech Member

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    my 2 cents worth is get a CMP and enjoy! When you are ready, look at a Fulton Armory.
    Below is from their web site:

    Fulton Armory M1 Garand Service Rifle (FFL Required)

    Adopted in 1936, John Cantius Garand's Masterpiece, The US Rifle, Cal. .30, M1. A true American "Classic" that still serves with distinction after three-quarters of a century.

    Winner of the www.Gun-Tests.com Shoot-Out

    Standard Features

    •Receiver: Original USGI
    •Barrel: Fulton Armory .30-’06, 24" 1x10, GI Contour, National Match Quality
    •Parts: GI & True Mil Spec Throughout, Forged Bolt & Op Rod
    •Stock & Handguards: New Walnut, Hand Selected, Lovingly Fit, & Beautifully Finished With Linseed Oil
    •Included Accessories: 8 Round Clip, Canvas Sling, & Owners Manual
    •Fulton Armory Precision Guarantee: Under 2.5 MOA (With Hornady® Match™ Ammunition)
     
  22. dzelenka

    dzelenka Member

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    The question posed by the original poster was: "I'm thinking about trying some NRA High Power. Would a mid grade CMP M1 do the job?"

    Recommending a Fulton Armory M1 for someone to begin shooting highpower is really doing him a disservice. A guarantee of "under 2.5 MOA" is really inadequate. A sale price of $1,529.96 for what you get is pretty ridiculous. If you really want an M1, you could get a Correct Grade, which is essentially a new, original collectible rifle, and keep $400 in your pocket. If he wants a rifle for highpower competition, he could have White Oak build a Krieger barreled upper and pair it with a lower with a Geissele trigger for the price of the Fulton Armory and have a rifle capable of shooting 10 shot groups 1/5 the size of the M1. For around $900, he could buy a RRA NM AR that will shoot 10 shot groups below 3/4 MOA. Either of the ARs would be not only more accurate, but more shootable than an M1.
     
  23. hvactech

    hvactech Member

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    I agree dzelenka, my first part of my statement ( suggestion ) is to get an economical CMP M1 and enjoy shooting.
    When mtncreek is ready and after his new found experience and knowledge he can go from there.
    mtncreek is looking for advice on spending his hard earned cash on a rifle for HP matches, Personnally I agree that buying a CMP rifle for this purpose is money well spent. As for my suggestion about Fulton that was strickly informational.
    My main point for mtn is to go out and have some fun !
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2011
  24. SupraBo

    SupraBo Member

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    I would get an M1 shoot for the Grand match. thats about it. a AR is the best way to go for the money. the learning curve is better too.

    700 for white oak upper and any lower will do with a two stage trigger..
    with this combo the gun is capable of breaking records
     
  25. dzelenka

    dzelenka Member

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    CMP rifles are awesome and I own a bunch of them, but buying a CMP M1 to get into highpower competition is a waste of money. Why spend a minimum of $617 for a rifle that will not be competitive and will only leave the new shooter frustrated? You can spend another $300 for a RRA NM AR and have a rifle that is very competitive.
     
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