CO semiauto ban bill changes and progress

[Miami_JBT]

Yes, and the key word here is "apparatus." The Democratic apparatchiks are increasingly out of touch -- they cater to the Karens and the nannies -- and meanwhile the traditional Left (the old FDR coalition) is moving en masse to the Republicans. The class structure of the parties has been turned on its head. The Democrats, to be competitive, must drop the gun control fetish (among other things). Otherwise they'll go the way of the Whigs.

Center-Leftist Democrats joining the GOP en masse aren't a good thing. All they're doing is diluting the GOP. Look at Florida as an example. Republicans passed gun control and gained seats after doing it.

Sure, the diluted GOP isn't for outright gun bans. But they're for mandatory waiting periods, restricting carrying, magazine capacity bans, red flag orders, firearm type bans, licensing requirements etc...

 

[AlexanderA]

Center-Leftist Democrats joining the GOP en masse aren't a good thing. All they're doing is diluting the GOP.

First of all, analysis in terms of "left" and "right" may be obsolete. Going forward, it may be more accurate to see things in terms of "populist" versus "elitist."

My point was that the blue collar working class loves its guns. That's one of the factors -- not often discussed, but nonetheless real -- that's pushing them from the Democrats to the Republicans. So we're ending up with a populist Republican party versus an elitist Democratic party. FDR must be spinning in his grave.

 

[Miami_JBT]

First of all, analysis in terms of "left" and "right" may be obsolete. Going forward, it may be more accurate to see things in terms of "populist" versus "elitist."

My point was that the blue collar working class loves its guns. That's one of the factors -- not often discussed, but nonetheless real -- that's pushing them from the Democrats to the Republicans. So we're ending up with a populist Republican party versus an elitist Democratic party. FDR must be spinning in his grave.

Plenty of blue-collar populists are in favor of gun control. They're fine with you owning a deer rifle, after a long and arduous process. But owning a AR or carrying a pistol? That's icky to 'em.

Populism is extremely dangerous.

The issue we face as a society is liberty versus authoritarianism. Not populism versus elitism.

Authoritarians are populists too.

 

[AlexanderA]

Plenty of blue-collar populists are in favor of gun control. They're fine with you owning a deer rifle, after a long and arduous process. But owning a AR or carrying a pistol? That's icky to 'em.

I beg to differ. These are the people that Obama said were "clinging to guns or religion," and that Hillary Clinton dismissed as "a basket of deplorables." These were former New Deal Democrats! It's not surprising that they have fled en masse to the Republicans. And they have been arming themselves with AR-15's for years.

No, support for gun control is not coming from the blue-collar working class. It's coming from upper-middle-class suburbanites -- the Karens and the soccer moms -- and from a sprinkling of inner-city activists. These people, although small in number, are setting the Democratic Party orthodoxy. (And incidentally, those are the people who might secretly own an AR-15 but want to deny it to others.)

 

[GEM]

Rachel Maddow is/was an AR , 1911 shooter but they should be locked up and checked out at the gun club.

 

[Basura Blanca]

Colion Noir explains the proposed law.

He says S**t twice

The Worst Gun Ban Passes The Colorado Senate

Colorado just tried to pull one of the most backdoor anti-gun moves we’ve ever seen. Instead of outright banning AR-15s and other rifles, they tried to burea...

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So at least two of the sponsors are pulling their support for the bill because of mission creep? That's actually a good thing, aside from Colion's (rightful) cynicism regarding the reasons for it. That means the backers are still open to pressure from constituents. And for those like me who can't always watch these videos, there's bill tracking link in the second one which explores all the other anti-gun activity going on in the shadow of SB3. One of those proposals is a voter intimidation bill (HB1225). This seems to be geared towards bringing civil suits against those who display any sort of gun, including toys, by casting the widest net possible to redefine voter intimidation, particularly:

"(c) Because election administration and voting take place in a number of locations including, but not limited to, polling places, elections and other government offices, ballot drop boxes, and people's homes, the term "voting", as defined by the "Freedom From Intimidation In Elections Act", is intended to be read expansively to include all forms and methods of voting permitted under federal and state law; and (d) the general assembly has compelling interests in protecting both public safety and individual rights, including the fundamental right to vote. It is the general assembly's intent and purpose in enacting the "Freedom From Intimidation In Elections Act" to help preserve the right to vote by securing the safety and freedom of our elections and allowing voters, election workers, and other officials who conduct our elections to play their roles free from intimidation."

The next section adds a presumption of guilt, and puts intent on the back-burner. Bad stuff all around.

 

[Basura Blanca]

Rachel Maddow is/was an AR , 1911 shooter but they should be locked up and checked out at the gun club.

I never knew that but I don't follow pundits too closely.

However, this is a good example of where I think 2A activism fails miserably. Maybe not Maddow specifically, but there's others like that on the edge of our exclusive club. Rather than deride them for being half wrong, we should capitalize on the shared interests instead. It's a lot easier to push people the rest of the way, who are halfway to where we need them to be already, then it is to convince the crowd who are diametrically opposed to everything we believe in. But a large part of that means ignoring politics, since politics is what will ultimately bury the 2A once and for all if we continue on this trajectory.

The 2A is primarily a public relations problem. As much as I'm a proponent of sobriety, the pothead crowd's efforts in the last couple decades is a shining example of what shifting public opinion can bring about. No other group I can think of has more successfully used public opinion alone, to literally get states to flat out ignore federal drug law, and conversely, not provoke the feds into responding. Imagine what we could do with that level of power with respect to the 2A.

 

[Walkalong]

Public opinion is indeed a huge weapon if you can get it in your favor, but it's a two edged sword. The 2nd Amendment crowd needs to do a better job, but it's a tougher sell that pot, simply because of how organized the antis are and how well they put out and spread scary stuff to unknowing non gun owners.

 

[Basura Blanca]

Spreading scary misinformation is the intersection of the Venn diagram comparing guns to weed though. It's something the two have in common. Stuff like this from our detractors is a good example of sloppy logic/hasty generalizations, much the same as what the pot advocacy groups overcame. The bigger point is that the pro-pot people have managed to negate a whole section of state and federal laws not because of, but in spite of losing battles at the supreme court.

Everything on that list above that is currently snaking its way through the CO legislature, is fodder for lawsuits. With politics shifting the way they are, if guns remain a blue/red/liberal/conservative wedge issue, we will eventually lose everything in spite of our wins in court. This is why it's critical to win over people as people, not party entities. We need a bigger tent.

 

[Walkalong]

We need a bigger tent.

No doubt, but we still have more opposition than the make pot legal people do.

 

[Hunter 08]

Permit to purchase so called "assault weapons".
Slippery slope indeed.

Minnesota has had that for well over a decade. But also for handguns as well. That’s why it took until I moved to Nebraska to get an AR rifle, just walk in, 4473 and out. No permit for ARs. Pistols on the other hand, needs a permit. Hoping that gets challenged here.

 

[The Night Rider]

Colorado’s Worst Gun Bill Heads to The House on March 5th: Let’s Pack the Capitol!

Email House and Senate Reps: Click link and scroll down https://wethesecondcolorado.comFacebook Rally Page: https://www.facebook.com/share/14jNsxntnV/Track a...

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This is the latest video from Melissa Flannel, Dragonman's daughter.

If you notice she essentially says in the video that Everytown wrote this bill.

And I think that's one of our biggest problems the anti rights crowd is nationally organized and the RTKBA crowd isn't

They write the bills at headquarters and then send them out to the various States legislatures and they all hit at once and they're all almost word for word exactly the same. And you can tell gun owners this over and over and over again and they don't see it.

If this bill does get passed into law it's never going away. If it doesn't get passed into law they'll tweak it and it will be back next year.

In 2013 the magazine capacity law cost John Morris his political career forever. They interview him every so often and every time they do he said it was worth it to get that bill passed.

It's interesting to me that Pollis has not said that he will or will not sign this bill. I'm guessing that if he thinks the current bill will damage his chances of being the first (openly) gay president in America he won't.

That said I'm sorry to say that I think Colorado is lost. Really I think America is lost, it just hasn't played out yet.

I've said this multiple times and I absolutely believe it's true, we lost this fight when we ceded control of our education system to the Leftists.

 

[Old Dog]

If this bill does get passed into law it's never going away. If it doesn't get passed into law they'll tweak it and it will be back next year.

Same as the Washington state legislature's playbook. Every.Damn.Year.

That said I'm sorry to say that I think Colorado is lost. Really I think America is lost, it just hasn't played out yet.

Sadly, I agree. And I see the same hubris displayed by my friends in "solid red states" that we in the PNW suffered from thirty years ago -- "That could never happen here." All one has to do is track the shifting population demographics, the interstate migration patterns, to see that rural America is losing population and the large metro population centers will eventually control your state's politics. More telling, though, is how we've lost American culture. Our social mores, our recreational proclivities, our loss of the concept of individualism, is why we're gonna lose.

I've said this multiple times and I absolutely believe it's true, we lost this fight when we ceded control of our education system to the Leftists.

Exactly. When public education turned into the indoctrination collective.

 

[Robert]

This will pass, we are going to a FOID system and a total ban on all things scary looking. Polis has already been helping them reword it so that he will sign it. It's a matter of when, not if.

But I hope I'm wrong...

 

[Turkeytider]

This will pass, we are going to a FOID system and a total ban on all things scary looking. Polis has already been helping them reword it so that he will sign it. It's a matter of when, not if.

But I hope I'm wrong...

Just death by a thousand cuts as far as private firearms ownership in Colorado is concerned. Make private ownership so onerous and expensive by placing hoop after hoop one has to jump through that after a while more and more people will just say , “ Ah, to hell with it. It’s just too much of a PITA. “

 

[alfsauve]

Just death by a thousand cuts as far as private firearms ownership in Colorado is concerned. Make private ownership so onerous and expensive by placing hoop after hoop one has to jump through that after a while more and more people will just say , “ Ah, to hell with it. It’s just too much of a PITA. “

And that's exactly the strategy. Make it arduous to buy, fewer will. Make it difficult to carry, fewer will. Limit the number of places that you can carry, fewer will. Increase the criminal liability for for storage, fewer will be gun owners. Already in many of the more populous areas of the US gun ownership is considered abnormal, and that's the intent of gun control groups.

 

[AlexanderA]

Half the country is becoming more antigun, while the other half is becoming more pro-gun. It all has to do with demographics and the effects of de-industrialization. Unfortunately Colorado , along with the Pacific Northwest, is becoming more antigun. On the other hand, states like Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania (the old Rust Belt) are becoming more pro-gun. Guns are part and parcel of the populist wave sweeping parts of the country. But Colorado (and similar states) seem to be immune from populism.

 

[HowardC]

Our social mores, our recreational proclivities, our loss of the concept of individualism, is why we're gonna lose.

Amen to Old Dog for this pithy summation. Especially the loss or cessation of individualism.

Few, if any people appear to think for themselves. Few people think of or derive their own logic and thought processes. People constantly need outside confirmation of their lives. Hence the proliferation of the social media forums, competition for 'likes' on such media, constant pleas for social acceptance, repetitive requests for evaluations of service, sales, etc. eg: I recently purchased a new mattress. I received three different requests for evaluation for the sale: one from the salesman himself, and two from the company, the second request terser and emphatic for reply.

Apologies for veering off topic.

-West out