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Coach gun for home defense?

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by MikeJ, Jan 2, 2003.

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  1. Gary A

    Gary A Member

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    Reading this thread, I thought I'd chime in but I gotta say I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable about shotguns as many here. I have had a couple of different short-barrelled coach guns and would offer a couple of my observations. In addition to only having two shots, I would not want to trust having a loaded coach gun relying on the safety to prevent firing because a) it doesn't seem safe to me and b) it would rely on having the action cocked and springs constantly under stress. A pump with a full or partially full magazine and an empty chamber with hammer down seems faster, safer, and the only spring "stressed" is the magazine spring. I had a Stoeger coach gun with which it was possible (with care) to open the action enough to load two shells and close it without cocking the action resulting in a loaded but uncocked shotgun, stressing no springs. This, however, still resulted in having to quickly break the gun open to cock it in order to bring it to bear, no better than racking the slide of a pump, more likely to spill the shells, and still leaving only two rounds at immediate disposal. My current coach gun, Turkish-made, cannot be opened enough to load shells without cocking the action meaning it must be either left empty, loaded and relying on the safety, or shells in the chamber but broken open.If kept broken open but "loaded' it still seems at little more advantage than racking a pump since it has to be closed and safety de-activated, and the leaf springs which power the hammers are under constant stress. Now that may not be a problem at all but I have always read that leaf springs are more prone to stress than coil springs. As much as I like the SxS coach guns, I just gotta believe the pump is superior in nearly every way including safety. I tried a Norinco coach gun and let me just say it was not satisfying and leave it at that. I would like to try a Baikal coach gun, the new one with real hammers, just for grins but still believe an 870 or a 1300 or any of several other pump guns is a far superior choice for HD. That's the decision I've come to and I'm comfortable with it.
     
  2. WonderNine

    WonderNine member

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    The hammers on the Baikal are not really hammers as they don't strike a firing pin. The firing pin is actually internal and the 'hammers' are actually cocking levers.

    I want a coach gun SxS with true external hammers so that it can be left loaded with the hammers down. That way when you need it all you have to do is cock the hammers. I'm looking at reliability more than anything else for a primary home defense gun. I don't like having to rack the slide on a pump between each shot and pump shotguns can jam as well.

    SxS guns reload plenty fast IMO. I want something that is virtually guaranteed to be ready and go bang when there are intruders in the house. I would use a sidearm like a 9mm in case I wasn't able to reload fast enough.
     
  3. WonderNine

    WonderNine member

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  4. WonderNine

    WonderNine member

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  5. Gabby Hayes

    Gabby Hayes Member

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    Baikal has a new coach gun out this year in which the external hammers actually function as such. They're calling it the Bounty Hunter II (IZH43KH) to compliment the earlier Bounty Hunter (IZH43K) that features external cocking levers only. Details: http://www.eaacorp.com/firearms/shotguns/izh43KH/index.html

    The Rossi coach gun has working external hammers and was imported here until about 1988. I've seen them at gun shows from time to time, so there must be a few of them out there.
     
  6. WonderNine

    WonderNine member

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    Thanks for pointing that out to me! Of course there's always something though, this new Bounty Hunter II has 2 and 3/4" chambers instead of 3".

    I found a Rossi for sale, but it's only in fair condition and they want $400 plus shipping....:cuss:
     
  7. Gabby Hayes

    Gabby Hayes Member

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    That's the way prices have been going in recent years with most any coach gun in decent shape. The cowboy action shooters have driven the market steadily upward. A friend paid $415 for a Rossi in Texas last year. I saw one last Fall at a show in Ohio going for $400. What the market will bear, I guess.
     
  8. MrAcheson

    MrAcheson Member

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    Gabby, EAA SxS coachguns are all called the Bounty Hunter II, the actual model designation determines whether it has internal hammer, external cocking hammers (K), or true external hammers (KH). The EAA Bounty Hunter is their colt SAA clone.
     
  9. JMLV

    JMLV Member

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    i HAVE A REALLY SWEET STEVENS

    model 235 hammer double. Not a good HJD gun through what with those LONG barrels. Shoots too good in cowboy matches to cut them. would be a shame to change the old soldier at this stage of its life. sweet shooter through, easy to hit with.
     
  10. Kdog45ak

    Kdog45ak Member

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    I just bought a s&s coach gun with working hammers for $250 at a local sporting goods store. It is imported by century arms. The site for finding a century arms dealer in your area is...

    http://www.centuryarms.com/Century/pages/locator.htm

    i havnt gotten to shoot it yet but it feels great.
     
  11. Vairochana

    Vairochana Member

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    Down in my neck of the woods we aren't trusted with pump action shotguns.
    I have opted for an old Baikal (TOZ 66) with true external hammers, it has pretty good internal chokes too so is good for clay and prey.:)
     
  12. Steve C

    Steve C Member

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    Never found the need for a shotgun shell longer than 2-3/4", be it hunting or SD. The only thing I'd even consider using a 3" or greater shell would be for long range pass shooting when hunting Geese.
     
  13. perpster

    perpster Member

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    Chamber Size

    I agree, but I like having a 3" chamber in case that's all that's available in a pinch. One of the reasons I like having a .357 magnum handgun or rifle: can use .38 spcl and/or .357. Versatility and reliability in an effective caliber, be it shotgun, rifle or handgun.
     
  14. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    ALL my duck hunting is with 3" steel fours. I got little use for anything shorter than three inches unless I'm dove or quail hunting. I do a LOT of waterfowl hunting. I've got little use for short barreled shotguns for that matter. My old SxS 28" mod/full 12 gauge is now my home defense shotgun since I don't wanna shoot it with steel loads. It kicks like a mule, anyway. :D That was okay when I was younger, but I'm getting cranky in my old age.
     
  15. miekelle

    miekelle Member

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    LUPARA is sicilian which means (wolf shot) and the sheppards and crop growers in italy use to use them because they could protect their herd from wolfs, or in the other case the vinyard/ vegtable growers use to use them to get rid of flocks of birds and then some how the very basic design got to the mafia. A lupara is commonly known as a sawn-off shotgun
     
  16. JImbothefiveth

    JImbothefiveth Member

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    Welcome to THR!


    Can someone please show me a picture of a gun with true external hammers? I'm not even sure what they look like.
     
  17. miekelle

    miekelle Member

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  18. miekelle

    miekelle Member

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  19. Leadhead

    Leadhead Member

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    3 inch doubles with exposed hammers....

    jtum3n.jpg

    72pu05.jpg

    13ynmlx.jpg
     
  20. JoeFish

    JoeFish Member

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    True, and this is one of the times when the Sicilian and Italian languages inersect (not as often as you might think).

    Even without the ethnographic relation, a short, hard-to-jam weapon is a first-reach tool on farms all over the world.

    When I first went to live on a farm, I was no stranger to guns, but I have to admit I was surprised to see- stood up in the broom closet- a .22 (for varmints in the distance, usually coyotes or wild dogs), a lupara (for walking the pastures) and a .38 special (for vagrants).

    And while I don't want to encourage any stereotypes... I am Sicilian, and I remember more than one of these being made at kitchen tables years ago, though usually from a 20 or 28 ga.

    While all that is cute, the gun you want in a stressful situation is a gun you've trained on. I'd rather have an 870 or 500 that I've shot trap with all summer, shortened barrel or not, that feels natural in my hands and has 6 rounds in it. Not to mention that when/if the cops show up, they'll be much less likely to raise an eyebrow at you. I've had friends with modified HD weapons get accused of their breakins being drug-related or something by LE when they got onsite.

    The beautiful thing about shotguns is that they can be as economical and versatile as you want them to be.

    --Edit: Also, I think your fear of short-stroking might be overthought. If you understand how guns work, a little firing time will make it clear what's involved in the action.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2008
  21. miekelle

    miekelle Member

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  22. PRM

    PRM Member

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    Not a Coach Gun, but it is a side by side 20X20 (Pedersoli Howdah Hunter). I bought one of these about a year ago. Great gun for what it was designed for. Patterns good with buck and field shot. Round ball is also pretty awesome. I keep mine loaded with 35 grains of FFG, .60 calibre patched round ball, and topped off with #4 Buck.

    Because it is black powder - length restrictions don't apply (11 inch barrels) - considered a smoothbore pistol.

    Buck and Ball, an American Tradition since the Revolution.
     

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  23. mgregg85

    mgregg85 Member

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    350px-Lupara.jpg

    I wish MI law allowed those.
     
  24. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder Member

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    The Howdah is an impressive hand gun! If I didn't already have a coach gun and a 870P I would be using mine on the night stand.
    I'm lucky to have several choices on what to use for HD, I feel the most comfortable with the couch gun. I have one of those elastic shell holders pulled over the forestock, like a sidesaddle. Carries six rounds, shorter and lighter than my 870P, and with a little practice you can reload very fast.
    I think the important thing is to feel comfortable with your gun and to practice... a lot.
     
  25. mrwilmoth

    mrwilmoth Member

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    whats the deal on dominion arms?
     
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