Cocked and Locked?

[tech]

I carry a 1911 every day and have not worried about it at all. But my local guy that does my transfers says he does not feel safe that the gun could go off and hurt someone. My reply was the trigger has to be pulled the grip safety depressed and the safety off all together before the gun would fire. If the thumb safety swept off and something failed mechanicaly causing the hammer to drop while in the holster with the trigger not depressed I assumed the pistol would not fire. Am I wrong or missing something?

Mike

 

[Gun Wielding Maniac]

The grip safety not being depressed would make sure the hammer could not drop.

 

[tech]

Thanks GWM I did not know that the grip safety acutally kept the hammer from dropping.

M

 

[1911Tuner]

Cocked, Locked, Ready to Rock

Your transfer agent is nervous about things that he doesn't understand.

The grip safety blocks the trigger. The thumb safety blocks the sear. The half-cock backs everything up in case of a catastrophic hammer hook failure.
Nothing positively blocks the hammer, but the thumb safety lug does slow it down a little if everything is in-spec.

I removed .125 inch from a sear nose once to see if the hammer would fall.
Not only did it NOT fall, it would hold the hammer at full-cock and functioned surprisingly well for a time before allowing the hammer to follow about twice per mag. The half-cock stopped it every time.
Of course, shortened hammer hooks, such as the ones found in a trigger jobbed pistol may not perform to the same standards, but the half-cock will do its job if unaltered.

Then I removed the hammer hooks and half-cock notch...held the hammer and engaged the thumb safety...pulled the hammer all the way to the grip safety tang, and let fly on a chambered, primed empty case. It took 36 strikes before it lit the primer. In this pistol, the thumb safety lug was retarding the hammer's momentum enough to effect a too-light strike to fire the gun. Yours may not...The only way to know is to ruin a hammer and test it.

 

[45auto]

The grip safety would not prevent the hammer from falling if you had an internal trigger problem. It does prevent the trigger from releasing the sear if it's not depressed.

If you had a S&W or Kimber series II 1911 which has a grip safety activated firing pin block, the hammer would still fall but the FP is blocked...so no bang.
Assuming the grip safety is not depressed.

Colt, Para, Sig have a FP safety activated by the trigger, so no problem if the hammer falls either.

"Standard 1911's", known generically as series 70, i.e. Springfield, some Colts, some Kimbers, DW, all of the semi-custom 1911's, etc don't have an active FP block so it could AD if the hammer went down, thumb safety off, etc. Wouldn't matter if the grip safety is depressed or not. The half cock notch on the hammer often catches the sear if the hammer follows, but not always.

Edit: I posted this prior to Tuner's explanation...so go with his.

 

[tech]

Thanks guys, I spent the Holliday playing with my kids and thier cousins. All the time the little seed of doubt planted in my head by the pawn broker worrying me about nothing. Thanks again.

Mike

 

[1911Tuner]

Firing Pin Blockers

Just a note about the pistols equipped with the passive firing pin blocking systems...

They're meant to make the gun drop-safe, not to make them more safe during Condtion One carry. In that, they're no more...and no less safe...than the models that aren't so equipped. Although it does make many people feel better about Cocked and Locked.

The bottom line...(Awwww, C'mon guys! ya HAD to know it was comin'.)

The bottom line is...

It's a GUN. It's NOT safe!

 

[WillBrayJr]

The 1911A1 was built for C&L carry. I have never heard or read of any 1911A1 accidently discharging while C&L. Anytime I seen a 1911A1 discharge is when someone pulled the trigger. If the 1911A1 is so unsafe it wouldn't have the service record it does.

 

[Mad Magyar]

Mike, what 1911Tuner & others said is true. I realize your inquiry deals with the safety of the 1911A1, but dealing with it emotionally and how you are perceived is another matter. You still might have some lingering doubts. Don't feel bad since you have plenty of company. Many pistoleros feel unconfortable about it, and I noticed in an article by M. Ayoob some time back citing data that produced no incidents of harm on LEO's using Condition 3 (no rd. in chamber). IOW's, they had time for a slide rack. What Ayoob did show was officers lives being saved when "perps' managed to take their weapons and weren't able to fire because of Cond. 3. The "Israeli draw" is taught by Israeli security and defense forces and with practice is no drawback. There are U.S. law enforcement agencies, local as well, that mandate Cond. 3. Some of the real expert trainers can do this draw faster than most of us can do a simple draw, and still get the front sight on the target. Just another sideway point of view.

 

[Seraph]

...And just think how fast those Israeli's would be if they carried in Condition 1!!!

 

[Standing Wolf]

...my local guy that does my transfers says he does not feel safe that the gun could go off and hurt someone.

Everybody's entitled to an irrational fear or two.

 

[Zach S]

Everybody's entitled to an irrational fear or two.

I have no issues with carrying a cocked and locked Kimber Series I with about .030" takeup on a ~3.5 lb trigger.

I am, however, scared of needles. Syringes to be specific.