Cocked and Locked

[Harley Man]

I have a 1911 45 ACP, but for the life of me I cannot bring myself to wear it "COCKED & LOCKED"! It just makes me nervious. I've dry fired it from a SOB position cocked it and fired. It just doesn't take that long plus you don't have to mess with the safety, so what is the advantage of cocking and Locking when you have to remove the safery anyway to shoot. The trade off is the safety.

 

[Black Majik]

Honestly, all I can advise is training. It's a mental block that you'll have to overcome. Carry around the house with an EMPTY chamber cocked and locked, at the end of the day, as the safety snicked off, and the hammer dropped? Also, even if the safety snicks off, with a proper holster covering the triggerguard the trigger won't pull itself. On top of this, the hammer won't fall with the trigger pulled unless the grip safety is depressed.

That exposed cocked hammer might look intimidating, but it's no more safe, or dangerous than a Glock, XD, P99 or any other striker fired weapons out there. The biggest safety is the one between your ears.

Lastly, carry a different weapon and/or platform until you can feel confident carry cocked and locked, like a 1911 should be carried.

Good luck

 

[Treo]

I think the OP is talking about carrying in condition 2 which I would think wouldn't be an issue W/ a modern firearm W/ a firing pin block.

Before Johnny Guest locks this thread, because we've had 3 just like it in a week (search is our friend) let me give you a synapsis of what you're about to hear;

The overwhelming majority of respondants are going to be 1911 guy who are going to tell you that "Gawd & John Moses Browning intended that gun to be carried cocked and locked".

Then you're going to get the condition three crowd who swear that you'll have eneough time to rack the slide ( I can tell you from personal exprience, you won't .) and besides you'll probably never need the gun anyway ( again personal experience dictates a different answer).

Both Groups are going to tell you that condition 2 carry isn't safe.

Then they'll get in an argument.

Somebody is going to suggest a DA/SA , DAO or revolver to you.

And somebody's going to tell you to get a GLOCK.

Then the thread will get locked

 

[Black Majik]

Then we'll just have to keep this discussion civil.

To the OP, the problem with condition 2 carry: loaded chamber, hammer down, safety off, is that you bypass all safety features on the 1911 to lower that hammer on a round in the chamber. Well, that's just not a safe procedure, especially with one in the pipe.

I sadly fall into the "condition 1 is the only way to go" crowd.

 

[the naked prophet]

Trying to safely lower the hammer on a 1911 will get you a negligent discharge one of these times. The 1911 is one of the least safe guns to carry with a round in the chamber and the hammer down.

You may feel more comfortable with a holster that has a leather strap passing between the hammer and the slide. If the hammer were to accidentally fall due to some mechanical failure, the leather would prevent it from hitting the firing pin. This may be a step towards making you more comfortable carrying C&L.

 

[Harley Man]

I guess when you think about it when I carry my Springfield Sub Compact XD-9.....It's like cocked and locked!
Thanks for the reply's everyone

 

[Mainsail]

The biggest problem of carrying with the hammer down on a live round is getting the hammer down on a live round safely.

JMHO

 

[Black Majik]

I guess when you think about it when I carry my Springfield Sub Compact XD-9.....It's like cocked and locked!
Thanks for the reply's everyone

Actually, when you think about it, the SA XD is cocked and UNlocked!

It has a single action trigger, grip safety but no thumb safety.

 

[Harley Man]

Point taken Black Majik....Well I sure don't have a problem carring the XD....
This is why I like this web site people with experience sharing knowledge...I now have my 45 on my hip has I write this....COCKED AND LOCKED!

 

[Black Majik]

Awesome. You were easy to convert.

 

[Maelstrom]

Trying to safely lower the hammer on a 1911 will get you a negligent discharge one of these times. The 1911 is one of the least safe guns to carry with a round in the chamber and the hammer down.

The nastiest part about that is where your thumb would be when the gun went off.

Right behind the slide.

 

[Guns and more]

I have a 1911 45 ACP, but for the life of me I cannot bring myself to wear it "COCKED & LOCKED"! It just makes me nervious. I've dry fired it from a SOB position cocked it and fired. It just doesn't take that long plus you don't have to mess with the safety, so what is the advantage of cocking and Locking when you have to remove the safery anyway to shoot. The trade off is the safety.

A 1911 with the hammer down can fire on a loaded chamber if the hammer would receive a blow such as a trip and fall, or some kind of accident. So you're giving up one part of safety. I felt better about "Cocked and Locked" when I got a holster with a thumb break, and the retention strap went between the hammer and the back of the slide. If the hammer were to fall (and I don't see how it could) it would only fall on the strap. When drawing you simply push the snap sideways with your thumb as you draw from the holster.

 

[Drgong]

I own a similar gun (BHP) and I recently converted from a Condition 3 to condition 1 person.

 

[Fozzy_Bear]

Harley Man,
Don't worry. Condition 1 is the way to go.

Treo,
awesome post. you should put that into it's own thread so we can get it stickied.

 

[mattk]

With a gun like a 1911 or BHP you do have to practice removing the safety as you bring the gun up.
I shoot with my thumb on top of the safety. I learned this at USPSA matches and it has served me extremely well.
I am as fast with a SAO thumb safety gun as I am with a Glock or XD>

 

[littlelefty]

I can relate to the OP. It took me a little while of seeing the hammer back before I got comfortable. I was more nervous getting into condition 1 than actually being there, since I have to go to condition 0 prior to engaging the safety. I kept thinking something like, "all it takes is for me to lose focus for a split second, place my finger on the trigger (a cardinal violation I know), and there's no turning back". The key for me is that the stuff remaining between my ears that dictates the actions of my trigger finger is the best and most crucial safety.
After a year or so of range trips, practicing going into condition 1 with a good backstop helped me build confidence in myself. Now it's the only way I carry my 1911 and have it in the dresser drawer

Again, for me it was just the site of the hammer. Kind of wierd maybe, especially since I had no problem chambering a round in my kel tec. Yes, a long hard dao trigger, but with no external safety, all it takes is a squeeze, and bang.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

A 1911 with the hammer down can fire on a loaded chamber if the hammer would receive a blow such as a trip and fall, or some kind of accident.

Only with "70 Series" designs. Even then, you need to drop the gun on its muzzle from about thirty feet.

The Series 80 systems do not have that problem as they have an integral firing pin block.

 

[sevin8nin]

I'm a condition 1 person for sure. But when I first got my 1911 I found myself 'decocking' it for certain situations, like long drives, or prolonged periods of sitting. I guess I was just concerned the hammer would fall some how.

Then I went and detail stripped my 1911 and read a bunch on how it operates and what factors it would ACTUALLY take for the hammer to fall.

I've even inadvertently carried my 1911 around with the hammer cocked and the safety off, nothing happened.

Just like mattk I learned to keep my thumb on top of the safety when shooting my 1911. I trained for this grip style, and now, whenever I pick up a 1911, or any gun for that matter, my thumb is looking to rest on top of a thumb safety. For guns like my px4, or an XD or Glock, this sucks because I usually end up holding the slide stop down.

I prefer the crisp single action of a 1911, and how easy it is to go from safe to fire, so I prefer to carry a 1911. There are other weapons that utilize a thumb style safety that i'd be comfortable carrying as well.

 

[45crittergitter]

Two points:

1. Letting the hammer down on a loaded 1911 is not nearly as dangerous as some here say it is - one only has to do it right. I won't tell you how, because I don't recommend doing it.

2. Do you hunt with a bolt action, pump, or auto rifle or shotgun with a round in the chamber? Pretty much the same thing.

Me, I just always use a holster with a thumb break as was previously suggested. I also have it (IWB) with snap belt loops so I can easily remove the whole thing without ever having the thumb break leave the hammer.

 

[Gordon Fink]

What was the half-cock notch for again?

~G. Fink

 

[Jim Watson]

The half cock notch holds the cylinder bolt retracted so you can open the loading gate and roll the cylinder to load, unload, or reload.

Oh, you mean on an automatic.

The usual excuse is that it is there to catch the hammer if it falls off of full cock somehow.
It is not for routine carry, Mike Hammer and Betsey notwithstanding.

I abused a 1911 by dropping it from head height on a vinyl tile floor with a primed case in the chamber under various "Conditions". No "POP!", barely a mark. I quit worrying about it.

 

[Gordon Fink]

I’m having a little fun here, so don’t be alarmed.

I always get a kick out of those who claim that J. M. Browning intended the m1911 pistol to be carried cocked and locked. To me, it’s obvious that he designed the pistol to be carried unloaded or (for those who insisted on it) loaded with hammer down. The military holsters of the day really weren’t suitable for anything else.

Therefore, the half-cock notch existed to help prevent an unintentional discharge while the hammer was being lowered or cocked over a loaded chamber. The thumb safety was there for when the pistol couldn’t be properly unloaded or decocked. This seems clear to me, but I would love to see citations that prove otherwise.

That said, in modern holsters, a 1911-style pistol can be carried very safely while cocked and locked.

~G. Fink

 

[M1911]

I have a 1911 45 ACP, but for the life of me I cannot bring myself to wear it "COCKED & LOCKED"! It just makes me nervious.

Empty the gun. Check that it is empty. Now holster it and wear it around the house for a week. At the end of a week, you'll find that the hammer still hasn't fallen.

I've dry fired it from a SOB position cocked it and fired. It just doesn't take that long plus you don't have to mess with the safety, so what is the advantage of cocking and Locking when you have to remove the safery anyway to shoot. The trade off is the safety.

:banghead::banghead:

Let me get this straight. You are afraid of the hammer falling by itself somehow, but you are not afraid of thumbing down the hammer on a loaded chamber? :banghead::banghead:

Lowering the safety is faster and easier than cocking the hammer, particularly when you only have one hand available. Cocking the hammer is particularly difficult with one hand and a beavertail safety.

Please go get some training at a place like Gunsite. Or go buy yourself a striker fired gun like a Glock or DA/SA gun like a Sig.

 

[Geronimo45]

Carry it howsoever you please, it's your gun. Carry it cocked with the safety off, cocked and locked on an empty chamber, hammer down on a loaded chamber, hammer down on an empty chamber... but keep in mind, all the cool kids carry cocked and locked on a loaded chamber.

I believe the cavalry originally carried the thing in condition 2, back when cavalry rode horses. Safety was during a fight, when the horses were going berserk.

Hammer-cocking is much easier to do with a spur hammer instead of the rowell/ring hammers many newer 1911s have, BTW.

 

[fletcher]

It's a mental block that you'll have to overcome.

+1. I was very reluctant to get a 1911 because of this, but I just accepted that it's a proven and reliable device and did it because I liked everything else about the gun - it's just something you get used to.

what is the advantage of cocking and Locking when you have to remove the safery anyway to shoot.

Consistent, short trigger pull.