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cockpit firearm

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by cmsgt, Jan 8, 2003.

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  1. cmsgt

    cmsgt Member

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    Greetings,
    A friend and commercial airline pilot for one of our major airlines asked me for my recommendation for a firearm to carry in the cockpit. He said he would be one of the first due to his military training and experience, and that he had put his name on the request list.
    Super accuracy will not be the main issue, possibly 3 feet. I suggested a compact smooth shooting revolver snubby with JHP or full wadd cutters -- who wants to worry about a failure to feed while trying to control the airplane? --or a Glock 27 for its compact firepower.
    These are the ones on my ccw (maximum of 2) for similar reasons.
    cmsgt
     
  2. Diesle

    Diesle Member

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    Arnt there going to be mandated guidlines?

    Arnt they going to have to use special rounds that wont pierce the hull?

    Diesle
     
  3. Blackhawk

    Blackhawk Member In Memoriam

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    Glock.

    Diesle, a bullet penetrating the fuselage causing a problem is Hollywood fiction. Worst that would happen is hitting a wiring harness or hydraulic line. Still no problem of any great proportion. If it hit a window, it would just go right through, and even if the window blew out, it would be hard to maintain pressurization, so a descent to below 12,000 feet would be all that's needed before finding an alternate airport.
     
  4. Kentucky Rifle

    Kentucky Rifle Member In Memoriam

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    I've got a little volunteer thing going...

    ..that requires a lot of night flying. I currently wear a shoulder holster with a J-frame or G27 under my Navy goat skin flight jacket. I keep it on until I'm underway. When summer comes, I guess I'll wear my light EAA jacket and the same pistols. Both pistols are loaded with RBCD.

    Blackhawk: I'm usually low enough that a hole in the window wouldn't matter, but I'd surely hate to have an "explosive decompression" at altitudes greater than 15000 feet. Shooting backwards and then trying to get the mask on before hypoxia set in would be a drag. It might have been easier when I was younger. (Well hell! I KNOW it would have been easier when I was younger! Who said, "If I knew that I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself". :) )

    KR
     
  5. Diesle

    Diesle Member

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    BlackHawk,

    Any published reports or tests on in flight ballistics that your aware of?

    Diesle
     
  6. Ala Dan

    Ala Dan Member in memoriam

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    If the airline industry mandates superior training, I
    think the sub-compact Glock would be and excellent
    choice; however, if the training isn't up to par, I would
    tend to favor a Smith & Wesson 360PD snubby! Cuz
    the pilots and crew aren't going to be doing a lot of
    shooting inside of that cockpit.

    Best Wishes,
    Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
     
  7. ruger357

    ruger357 Member

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    My vote also goes with a J frame.
     
  8. DMK

    DMK Member

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    I think I'd want a hammerless revolver loaded with .38 if it was me.

    I agree with the reliability factor and it might be nice not to worry about clothing or contact shooting jamming the weapon. Aircraft cabins are very tight quarters.


    I'd be worried about over penetration. Not that a round leaving the aircraft through the skin is a worry, but a round going through the bulkhead into a tightly packed passenger compartment should be a concern.
     
  9. alamo

    alamo Member

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    A Glock or revolver. Not a J frame though as an extra round could be useful. Maybe a S&W Model 66 with a 2.5" barrel.
    Revolvers might be the best idiot-proof solution.
     
  10. bpisler

    bpisler Member

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    I would think a N frame smith(44spl,45 colt) loaded with magsafes would be fine.
     
  11. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Gun: Lots of choices; let's say a Glock 19 as a baseline.
    Supercompact autos and especially snubby revolvers are hard enough to shoot, even at close range, and offer no advantage where only temporary concealment is required.

    Ammo: Something with PLENTY of penetration. I would consider candy cane alternating ball and JHP. Why? Shooting a 9mm hole in an aircraft fuselage is not a problem. Hitting a control run is a manageable problem. Shooting through a terr and hitting a passenger is regrettable.

    BUT, you have to figure the terr is there to use the whole plane, all crew, and all passengers as a cruise missle against more people at his target. If you have to shoot through a passenger or stewardess to get the terr, that is what must be done and you must have the round to do it.

    Does that sound hard and cold?
    Ask the Air National Guardsmen who are mostly called-up airline pilots waiting to be scrambled to shoot down a hijacked plane full of their coworkers and customers what is hard and cold.
     
  12. STEVE M

    STEVE M Member

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    In the cockpit I would want a revolver over an auto. In those

    tight confines I wouldn't want to have to worry about brass

    flying around. Also for a pilot to fire at someone behind him he

    WILL have to contort his body just to get a pistol pointed in the

    general direction, much less aimed. In that type of 'stance' I

    wouldn't want to have to worry about the slide of an auto

    dragging/snagging anything or position induced limp-wristing,

    any of wich will cause a semi to jam.
     
  13. New_comer

    New_comer Member

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    The pilot does not even have to shoot, if the perp sees an 8" barrelled monstrosity with a .44 wide hole peering at him. ;)

    I'd have to say the biggest and baddest there is, a Raging Bull, Super Blackhawk or Desert Eagle, with the top 2 or 3 being rubber bullets to inflict paralizing pain, the fourth could be a RBCD or Glaser round to control overpenetration.

    My 2 cents.:D
     
  14. Fly320s

    Fly320s Member

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    What list? I've been trying to find out how to get signed-up for this and I haven't found squat.
     
  15. Navy joe

    Navy joe Member

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    An auto of complete reliability and large capacity. Remember, the pilots are not allowed to carry, it's a flight deck gun. Kinda like a car gun thread. Sig, Beretta 92, USP, or Glock. 9mm be fine
     
  16. Greybeard

    Greybeard Member

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    I'm certainly not up the most current on the issue, but seems like the last I recall hearing - with much credibility - was most likely Sigs ... Altho not seen in a while, I believe Lefteyedom from TFL was staying pretty much on top of the issue. I've forwarded this page to see if I can rouse him ...
     
  17. 9x19

    9x19 member

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    If either of the Pilots are having to defend the flight deck (cock pits are found in fighters, BTW), then the Flight Engineer must already already be dead? :uhoh:

    As far as pistol choice... if it were me, I'd opt for a sub-compact Glock... if a revolver is mandated... make mine a 3" Ruger SP-101, or S&W 60-6.
     
  18. TreeSquid

    TreeSquid Member

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    Thompson Contender 45-70, ....uhhhhh.....with explosive rounds! :D
     
  19. Drjones

    Drjones member

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    I think the best handgun possible to send those uh, slime of ME decent to Allah would be a good ol' American 1911 COLT!!! :D :cool:
     
  20. Pilot

    Pilot Member

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    Any decent autoloader or revolver is fine in an airplane. I prefer autoloaders and my current carry piece in my airplane is a CZ-75 PCR. Light, accurate, reliable.

    The others are correct, the de-pressurization thing is all Hollywood.
     
  21. foghornl

    foghornl Member

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    My humble $0.02:

    Large calibre, like 45ACP or 45Colt, Projectile Golden Sabre, Gold Dot, Win/Fed "Personal Defense" rounds.

    Something to punch a large deflation hole in the BG, without perforating folks in the first 3 rows....
     
  22. seeker_two

    seeker_two Member

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    I agree w/ foghornl. A large-caliber snub would be ideal. W/ a frangible bullet, it would do all the damage needed for a one-shot stop w/ minimal collateral damage.

    Something along the lines of the Taurus snubs or S&W's 696 would do well. Taurus' .45ACP Tracker (w/o the ports) would be the berries...:D
     
  23. JHP147

    JHP147 Member

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    my take

    I went to a "LEO Flying Armed" class that is reqiured for any cop who wants to carry on a plane (extradition or other events that require that you be armed, not just carrying). It is federally mandated/ FAA researched, so I'm assuming that they are right when they said that explosive decompression is indeed a Hollywood phenomenon.
    Expounding on Steve M's input-We shoot from some only barely odd positions in my IDPA group. By barely odd, I mean seated on the ground, lying down, etc. EVERY time we do this I see stoppages that are generated from "limp wristing" or a variant of not having the gun in line with the forearm when it goes off. For this reason, I vote revolver. J-frames are tough guns to shoot well. N-frames are a bit heavy, but an N-frame beats a J for "shootability." The funny looking S&W 5-shot .44 Special (giant Centennial, I forget the model) would be good. We are hopefully talking about short range and there WILL be innocents behind the "jihacker." The number of bad guys will likely be small, so the 5-shot deal doesn't bother me. If limited capacity bothers anyone, the 8-shot 627 would be great. Slick trigger job, short bbl. for close quarter retention advantage, and maybe some of the Remington 125 mid-range magnums or 158+Ps if the pilot is not a regular shooter. I love autos, carry one daily for self-defense and work, but I am a bit wary of them in the odd positions a flight deck shooting might generate, not to mention the fact that pilots are pretty busy guys and may not log a lot of range time.
    Shooting through a good guy to hit a bad guy? No thanks, bullets don't go straight through bodies when you need them to. I'll go to plan B, whatever it is.
     
  24. Zorro

    Zorro Member

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    Mil Spec Loose!! Colt 1911 and Federal Classic 185 Grain JHP.

    Easy to use, Lots of power, and it will NOT! Penetrate the skin of any commercial jet.

    Ammo capacity isn't a consideration for a "Stick it in their face and FIRE!" Cockpit gun.
     
  25. 91101

    91101 Member

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    Charter Arms Bulldog .44 spc Small gun BIG hole...

    Michael
     
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