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Coerced "confession."

Discussion in 'Legal' started by ravinraven, Aug 1, 2005.

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  1. ravinraven

    ravinraven Member

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    I was just watching the bit on FOX about the Illinois Dad who was just let out of jail. He'd been in jail about a year after "confessing" to the murder of his three-year-old daughter. The "confession" was forced out of him by police/prosecuters. DNA cleared him.

    This seems to be a trend in Illinois. Anybody have any information on the details of this coercion? Is anyone writing a book about this crap?

    rr
     
  2. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

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    How does crap like this happen anymore? A year in jail with no trial and no lawyer? We criticize the Chinese for doing ???? half as bad as this.

    Every cop and govt attorney who was involved in this should be lined up against the wall and shot. Things like this should produce rapid and enthusiastic whistle blowing, not pats on the back for getting a confession from an innocent man.
     
  3. bogie

    bogie Member

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    Good cop, bad cop, sign this and you can go home.
     
  4. Graystar

    Graystar Member

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    I'd have to see the details, but probably another victim of Miranda. I swear that damn Miranda ruling has to be one of the biggest perpetrators of rights violation to come out of the court.
     
  5. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Member

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    :what: ????

    Pilgrim
     
  6. CentralTexas

    CentralTexas Member

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    As long as laws

    let prosecuters get a pass from being charged or sued in most cases and they get the jobs by being elected this will continue....
    CT
     
  7. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    Lots of info available with Google. One report says he spent 6 of the "12 hours" with his wife - not being questioned. Of course, there is the small matter of why they sat on the untested DNA samples for nearly a year. Probably to save money since he'd already 'fessed up. JT

    Here's one early report:

    "Fox was questioned by police for about 12 hours Tuesday. Authorities say that during the questioning, Fox confessed on videotape to the killing.

    On Thursday, the Will County sheriff said Fox claims the girl's death was an accident.

    Sheriff Paul Kaupas said Fox told investigators that his daughter Riley died when he accidentally hit her with a bathroom door at their Wilmington home. The sheriff said Fox claims he panicked and that he assaulted her and dumped her body to make the death look like an abduction.

    Riley Fox was reported missing June 6. Her father told authorities he woke up that morning and couldn't find her in the family's home.

    A pair of hikers discovered the girl's body hours later in a creek four miles from the home.

    Investigators said that Fox picked up his two children at their grandmother's house around 12:30 a.m. on June 6. Their mother, Melissa, was in Chicago for the Avon Breast Cancer Walk. Once home, police say the father put his son, Tyler, in the front room of the home and took Riley to a back bedroom, where he allegedly sexually assaulted her. Then, police say, Fox duct-taped her mouth and hands. Bruises on her wrists indicated a struggle. Fox then allegedly put Riley in the back seat of the family car and drove several miles to a creek, where he placed her in the water.

    "The forensic investigation revealed that Riley Fox was alive at the time she entered the creek. Additionally, the autopsy revealed that Riley Fox suffered non-lethal head injuries, and that a sexual assault had taken place," said Patrick O'Neill, the Will County coroner. "Duct tape was found over Riley's mouth, and a substance consistent with duct tape was found on her forearms.""
     
  8. KriegHund

    KriegHund Member

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    "How does crap like this happen anymore"

    Very easily actually. Many police are overzealous about getting scum off the streets. Many people who claim innocence really are.

    Especially younger suspects.

    I forget the crime but their was a documentary on TLC about some 80's murder-

    They left the teen 4 days without food and with limited water, and no bathroom breaks.

    Sounds like a violation of his rights today. And police wonder why many times citizens turn away and support the suspect. When you have a police shooting a 12 year old boy every other weekend it makes me pissed off frankly.

    It should be mentioned that ALOT of the police are truely good men and women. Its just that the bad ones stand out alot more. And its the bad ones that turn us away.
     
  9. pcf

    pcf Member

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    "Speedy trial" has different meanings in different locations. Sometimes it may take four months for a felony to get to trial, sometimes it may take two years.

    If you can't make bail or no bail is set, you go to prison while you wait.

    Coerced confessions are nothing new in the land of Illinois.
     
  10. Graystar

    Graystar Member

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    The Miranda ruling has been the cause of many innocent people going to jail because their coerced confessions were upheld simply because the accused had been read his rights. On the flip side, many victims’ rights have been violated when confessed perpetrators are let go because there was some problem with reading the Miranda rights.

    The Miranda warning is like the NYC searches...can’t possibly do what it was intended to do.

    The Fifth Amendment protection that Miranda is supposed to address is against compelled testimony. The very definition of a compelled testimony is testimony that is given against a person’s will. What good is it to know that you have the right to remain silent when you’re being coerced into confessing?

    What the Supreme Court unwittingly did was to place the burden of the protection of our right against compelled testimony upon the shoulders of the accused. That’s not where it should be. The burden of protecting our rights is on the government.

    The Supreme Court essentially invalidated the concept of compelled testimony. Now, all testimony given after the reading of Miranda rights is considered voluntary, whether or not false promises were made or a gun was held to your head. Apparently, you’re suppose to allow yourself to be killed before confessing.
     
  11. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Member

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    The whole good cop, bad cop, if you confess we'll give you a light slap and a bottle of champagne thing...turn around they bluffed and you get no breaks.
    Its a situation when bad TV and movie scripts do happen from time to time.

    One that pops into my mind is the homeless man that got jailed for 8 months because a group of pre-teen girls claimed they were being stalked and molested. The guy served 8 months in prison under 7 felony and mis. counts including child molestation and assault before the stupid kids came forward and told them it was a bogus story. So much for requiring pesky things like "proof".

    Every few years, you hear about a guy on death row or in prison being freed due to "new DNA evidence". Sucks that they take away a large chunk of an innocent man's life and he can do little about it afterwards. Another situation that pops up often is the issue of rape...the most recently famous case being Kobe Bryant. A man with less fame and money would be serving a prison term right now.
     
  12. pax

    pax Member

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    And that, right there, is an argument against the death penalty, even in the most heinous cases.

    No, I don't have a solution. I just admire the problem.

    pax

    I was court-martialed in my absence, and sentenced to death in my absence, so I said they could shoot me in my absence. -- Brendan F. Behan
     
  13. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Member

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    I'm pro death penalty as a punishment. Some people need to be turned into fertilizer.

    Though, how people get assigned that punishment is a system that is SNAFU. I know there are innocent men and women on death row thanks to a myriad of less-than-fair techniques prosecutors and police might indulge in, or if the defendant isn't a rich and famous individual. Catch 22 for me.
     
  14. pax

    pax Member

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    Yup. Like a man who would sexually assault and then murder his own three-year-old daughter. That kind of person.

    The problem is, how many innocent people are you willing to accept being murdered by the state? 1 out of 10 people on death row? 1 out of 100? 1 out of 1000? out of 10,000?

    There's no such thing as perfection. So where is your line?

    pax
     
  15. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Welcome to the world of the tilecrawler. :scrutiny: :uhoh:

    Sometimes the po-po "grab the bit" and going running off in the wrong direction. Cannot believe that people do not lawyer up, but people who are innocent want to be seen as the good guy and unfortunately cooperate with the police.
     
  16. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

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    How about DNA evidence conclusively linking the perpetrator with the crime? This will mean that some of the truly guilty will go free, but personally I find that far more palatable than the truly innocent being punished.
     
  17. RevDisk

    RevDisk Member

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    Good citizens only need to say "Lawyer please". They can still cooperate with the police, through their lawyer. Bit expensive, but cheaper than jail.

    The road to Hades is paved with good intentions, and all that.
     
  18. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    "The problem is, how many innocent people are you willing to accept being murdered by the state?"

    No one should be put in prison because mistakes are made. How many innocent people are you willing to accept being jailed by the state? ;)

    John
     
  19. Vang

    Vang Member

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    Being jailed is something you can be compensated for through a lawsuit. Once you're dead, you're dead.
     
  20. CAnnoneer

    CAnnoneer Member

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    I think honest mistakes are not necessarily the whole problem.

    Prosecutors are under a lot of pressure to convict. By construction, they are fighting an uphill battle due to this little philosophical bequest from Roman law saying that "it is better that five guilty go free than one innocent be punished." This gives them the idea that anything they can get away with is fair game, because the lawyers on the other side certainly pull the same. Thus the system is about playing word twister with the letter of the law rather than about searching for the objective truth and meting justice accordingly.

    On top of that, the promotions are based on which prosecutor bagged whom, so any careerist in the system has an incredible incentive to bag as many and as big a fish as possible. Many go as far as obstinately continuing trials even when they themselves are convinced the accused is innocent. The reason is, if they drag it enough, apply enough pressure, run enough lawyer expenses, maybe the accused will buckle and make a deal. If he/she does not, and gets acquitted by the jury, the prosecutors can always throw their hands in the air and blame the stupidity of the jury. It costs them nothing; it costs us the taxpayers and potential future innocent accused a whole lot.

    My hope for fixing the system is that with the introduction of more advanced, more reliable technology, e.g. DNA tests at crime scene, establishing guilt would be increasingly a question of objective technology rather than subjective word games.
     
  21. roo_ster

    roo_ster Member

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    As a rule, we should do our darndest to insure no innocent men get executed.

    We must acknoledge that people and their institutions are not perfect. Insisting on perfection is a recipie for inaction and anarchy.

    The old saw about "letting 10 guilty men go free rather than one innocent man be exeucted" does not hold water. The vast majority of those on death row are career criminals. The odds are that they will kill again. So, letting ten guilty men go free rather than execuing the one innocent man...is sentencing another 5-7 innocent men to death by the hands of the guilty.

    I used to be wholly against giving gov't the power to execute its citizens. I still have some serious reservations, but the advent of DNA testing makes me more, rather than less, confident that contemporary death sentences are just.
     
  22. Telperion

    Telperion Member

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    Unfortunately, most citizens have been indoctrinated by the idiot box that the po-po are always right, and that anyone who asks for a lawyer is guilty or has something to hide (cue ominous music). ;)
     
  23. jnojr

    jnojr Member

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    Without a trial? ;)
     
  24. carebear

    carebear Member

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    We'll have a nice fair trial......











    And then we'll shoot 'em. ;)
     
  25. RevDisk

    RevDisk Member

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    Heh. I'd rather look guilty or look like I have something to hide than be a complete idiot. Ask any cop or DA how many folks talk themselves into a jail cell.
     
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