Cold Bore Shot Question

[carbine85]

Do you guys shoot 1 round before you go for a 3 - 5 round group?
I'm just curious if I'm the only one that does that.

 

[Art Eatman]

I guess I've been lucky. Since my focus has always been on hunting, the first shot from a cold barrel is the most important. I tweaked and meddled with two particular rifles, a .243 and an '06, until the first three or five shots made one small group, sub-MOA.

 

[BCRider]

Both cold bore and clean bore have an effect on that first shot. I've seen this show up on more than one occasion with a nice clean bore. First shot is sitting a couple of inches away from the rest of the group.

 

[LeonCarr]

I cold bore zero every rifle I own. Most animals, two or four legged, won't wait around to let your groups settle in.

I fire the first round carefully from a cold clean bore, make my initial adjustments based on that, then let the barrel cool to the touch between shots and clean every 5 rounds while zeroing the rifle. I might be over doing it, but the first shot has to be the best shot. Period.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Corn-Picker]

I have a target that I take to the range everytime I go, and I only shoot it once per trip (the first shot). I figure this gives me a good idea of cold bore group size as a function of temperature and other factors that you can't capture in a single range trip. I haven't noticed a significant impact in terms of POI or group size with my deer rifle -- seems to shoot the same cold as hot. I almost never clean my bolt action rifles, so IDK if cleaning would affect the cold shot zero.

Edit: I'll mention that my group sizes are 1-2" at 100 yards with my preferred hutning ammo. If I were a better shot using match grade ammo and my groups were smaller I might notice a difference.

 

[herrwalther]

I shoot both. Groups are great to see how mechanically accurate your rifle is and how well you know the fundamentals.

First shot accuracy is also important, especially for hunting. It is like that joke, there are 6 pigeons on a telephone wire. You shoot one and kill it. How many pigeons are left? None. Because they all flew away. Animals won't stand there waiting for the good round in your 3-5 group.

 

[MCMXI]

My take on this is that a really good barrel/rifle will show no difference in POI between cold/clean and hot/fouled. This is the case with both of my rifles with Krieger barrels and all three of my AI rifles. This is also the case with my Kimber Talkeetna. Here's a three round group shot from a cold/clean bore prior to a hunting trip a couple of weeks ago. You can see the ring around the bullet hole darken with the second and third shots.

 

[PapaG]

This is a concept I have been playing with for years. Every rifle I take to the range gets the first shot at a dedicated target, a plain white paper with a stick on aiming point. These get filed for later reference. Then I shoot groups. If I have not made any sight changes, I repeat the single shot and compare to previous targets on subsequent range trips.
Some of my rifles are quite reliable on that first shot going where it did weeks, or months before. An old Anschutz 141, however, never settles down til it is ready, taking 2, 5, 10 or more shots to settle in. A 10-22 Match always threw the first shot out of a fresh magazine a half inch out. My Pre-64 70 is quite consistent. My 77-22magnum is also.
I shot muzzle loading competition for years, in the 60s, 70s and early eighties and never found one that didn't need a fouled (just a little) barrel to perform. I learned to sight in with a clean barrel, cleaning well between shots, for hunting.
In my humble opinion, if you have a gun that puts subsequent shots around that first cold barrel shot you are fortunate and should hang on to it for dear life.

 

[sage5907]

I think the conversation should be about a cold/clean bore vs a cold/fouled bore. I would expect a hunting rifle with a cold/fouled bore to shoot the first three shots in the same group without a flyer. Many hunting rifles wouldn't do it when starting with a cold/clean bore.

 

[Geno]

1858:

Dang good trigger-work, Buddy! Real good!!

Geno

 

[BCRider]

I know of a couple of guys that have said that when sighting in their hunting rifle that they might only shoot it a half dozen times over the course of an afternoon. The rest of the time they play with some plinker gun while waiting for the barrel to cool back down to ambient for that day.

And at least one guy only sights in during the coolness of the morning or on foul weather days so he's got something closer to the typical miserable weather so often found during hunting trips. He was smiling when he said that last bit. But it was one of those "funny because it's true" smiles.... And they wonder why I don't really want to join them......

And again he might only shoot 2 to 4 rounds with lots of cooling down time between so he was working with a cold bore.

 

[urbaneruralite]

I zero starting with a cold dirty bore. Most rifles can do two more shots before cooling down, but some just one. That's how I duplicate the conditions in which I use them away from the range. Call it a field zero.

So, yes I shoot one to dirty it before grouping. If I have to clean during season, I shoot it once before hunting. I would rather shoot cold and clean, but I gave up on figuring out how to consistently leave one the same kind of clean pretty quick.

 

[Frostbite]

I would rather shoot cold and clean, but I gave up on figuring out how to consistently leave one the same kind of clean pretty quick.

Doesn't clean mean white patches out of the bore, nothing else coming out, not even copper green when checking with copper solvent?

 

[AK103K]

I would think you'd want the first shot to be zeroed for the cold shot. Especially, if you felt you really needed the precision.

These were shot at 100 yards, prone off a bipod, with my old Remington 700V in .308, using my reload equivalent of the original Federal Match load, basically a 168 grain SMK over 4064. You can see the difference in the first, and remaining 4. Thats pretty much what always occurred when the gun was first shot.





This was the result when it was warm...

 

[sage5907]

AK103K, you can't explain it any better than that!

 

[BCRider]

If that's all the drift that you get then that one is certainly a keeper.

Good bad or indifferent this thread is at least pointing out the need and methods for testing cold/clean bore first shot to warm and fouled. If for no other reason that makes this topic a winner.

 

[urbaneruralite]

Doesn't clean mean white patches out of the bore, nothing else coming out, not even copper green when checking with copper solvent?

Maybe not. What about a rough barrel you want to leave some copper in? Copper and carbon set up in layers. What's up with that? Moly or lubalox layers too? And what's the point of it being clean if not protected? How do you leave a film of protestant in there consistently?

 

[gamestalker]

I do, but I' know a lot of folks don't. If I'm loading for a hunting trip I always sight in with a cold bore. It's far more time consuming, but it tells me where I'm going to expect my first or second shot is going to impact.

Now if I'm just shooting groups, I don't usually bother. But it is interesting, and in most instances there is a difference in POI.

I have one rifle that honestly doesn't shoot any different when warm / fouled, compared to clean / cold. Oddly, that one rifle is a beat up Rem. 710, that rifle will shoot the same ragged hole all day long, hot or cold, and with a bottom of the line Leupold 3x9x40 Hunter. Sadly I had to retired that rifle, things kept breaking on it, I finally gave up and retired it.

GS

 

[urbaneruralite]

The time can be cut down a little by using a battery operated air mattress pump and a rubber hose to push air down the bore between shots.

 

[eastbank]

these two shots were from a cold barrel at 100yds from a rem 7600 pump in 30-06 and a burris 1.5-6x-40mm with a 30mm tube. i just had put the burris on to get more light for dark mornings and evenings. the rifle did shoot 1-1.5 groups before putting on the burris with a leupold scope also. load was 55grs imr 4350 and 165 nosler BT bullets. i also have a rem 700 sps in 7mm-08 that will do a little better at the same range. .75-1 " groups with a cold barrel. eastbank.

 

[BSA1]

Timely topic as I found this old target while cleaning the mancave yesterday.

Gun; Pedersoli Rolling Block
Caliber; 45-70
Sights; Soule tang, hooded front sight

Bullet; 405 gr. cast lead sized .348”
Powder charge; 35 gr. IMR-3031
W-W brass
Primer; WLR

Distance; 50 yds.
Rested position
Barrel clean with Breakfree CLP

Weather;
Temp. 92 degrees
Wind; South 10 mph with 20 mph gusts
Sunny

 

[ArchAngelCD]

My Howa 1500 in 30-06 has a different clean cold bore POI than the next 3 shots. The fouled cold bore shot is different than the clean cold bore shot by a lot and not the same as the group bit it is closer.

3 to 5 round group is sub 1/2MOA
Cold clean bore shot is 1" left and 1" low.
Fouled cold bore shot is 3/4" right and level with the group.
THIS is why you have to shoot your rifle under all conditions and know YOUR rifle.

 

[Zen Archery]

My take on this is that a really good barrel/rifle will show no difference in POI between cold/clean and hot/fouled. This is the case with both of my rifles with Krieger barrels and all three of my AI rifles. This is also the case with my Kimber Talkeetna. Here's a three round group shot from a cold/clean bore prior to a hunting trip a couple of weeks ago. You can see the ring around the bullet hole darken with the second and third shots.

Yep!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I disagree there is no difference between cold bore/clean bore/fouled bore shots and I'm not the only one. The Army Marksmanship Unit has a lesson on this and I'm fairly sure they are using quality rifles.

That is a very good group above but it's rare, not the normal.

 

[Zeke/PA]

I also believe that in a hunting rifle, the first shot from a cold bore is the most important.
When shooting for group size I generally wait at least a minute between shots.