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Cold dead fingers, Really?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Lex Luthier, Feb 2, 2013.

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  1. Lex Luthier

    Lex Luthier Member

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    I am sure many of us here are gobsmacked by our governments brash attempts to ignore the US Constitution. I am completely sure that we all value our security and our rights, and that we would never allow our families to be hurt, but it seems our potential reactions to the oncoming Gestapo may very well make that happen. The freedom to exercise out 2A rights is but one facet on this gem of life. Our intellectual and moral constitution are all we have to make us men, and we need to decide how we are going to react.

    Some guys are very braggadocio about being the last man standing, and never ever giving in, but how motivated are we really? There are several bills being discussed here in MN next week that if passed would very seriously impact my rights and security. I would have to sell or make disappear almost every tool that has given me joy and satisfaction. I would have to allow the jackboots into my home to inspect the storage arrangements of my then legally registered items. While we have to maintain the necessary life stuff like good jobs, familiar group associations, and other mainstays that make our lives as we know it comfortable and satisfying, the prospect of living a value added life seems to be diminishing.

    Would you be the guy surrounded and not ever giving up the fight? What would it take for you to give up your job, home, and everything else to make your point? How many of us are willing to be the poster boy?
     
  2. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    We get this question from time to time and it is pretty hard to take any answers seriously. Very few of us have ever faced a "submit or die" or "submit or go to jail" situation. It is mighty difficult to accept that a large number of folks -- even us die-hard gun nuts -- would really give up their families, jobs, homes, and life when presented with such a choice.

    Even if we are willing to do the math and make the personal pledge that we will never submit -- there's simply no way to utterly commit to being carried out in a body bag, past your orphan kids ... who will then surrender your guns anyway.

    The time to fight is NOW. Give up a day at work and go see your representatives. Write, call, fax, email constantly. Organize your friends, family, and neighbors. All that stuff is a pain, sure, but it is a whole lot less of a pain than fighting later...and it is much more likely that you WILL fight now than that you will "man up" when the blue helmets (or whoever) come.
     
  3. huntsman

    huntsman Member

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    I don't believe your question can be answered honestly ahead of time, I don't let emotion rule my decisions but whether to give up or fight is one where emotion and situation are both fluid.
     
  4. PRM

    PRM Member

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  5. xXxplosive

    xXxplosive Member

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    The Dicision is an individual one........but, I just can't believe we've elected again the same people who have been fooling us all along....man are we stupid. And the constant reporting in the News everyday of any firearms related event is their attempt at changing in mass public opinion.
    It may just come to..........Stand Your Ground......IMO.
     
  6. fallout mike

    fallout mike Member

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    Some people have come to terms with the reality that they will die in their front yards, gun in hand. I know such people.
     
  7. J-Bar

    J-Bar Member

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    An option to be considered is moving to a state that suits your personal philosophy.

    Folks are leaving California and Illinois. Perhaps they will start leaving Minnesota, too.

    I think I would pack up my guns and move to a friendlier climate rather than force a shoot-out on my front porch.
     
  8. NeuseRvrRat

    NeuseRvrRat Member

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  9. Gun Geezer

    Gun Geezer Member

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    The thing is this. The founders were living in tyranny and said "Give me liberty or give me death". They'd had enough and were a people unto themselves, not really English anymore. They were Colonials. Americans but not yet called that.

    Appears to me those who question what they or others would be willing to do and just how far they are willing to go, just have not had enough tyranny yet.

    Bammy, the .gov, and the judiciaryare steadly taking one freedom after another. At some point, we'll have had enough and there will be no doubt for some what some will be willing to do.

    If a troop of blue helmets comes marching into town, I'm going to war with everything I've got. No doubt at all. If it's US Marines, I'm not ready to say I could do such a thing. I just pray God I'm not forced to choose cause I know I'll die if I choose liberty.
     
  10. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Oooh. Bad tactics.

    Even these people, however, just illustrate my point. Until and unless they DO, it's just talk. (Meaning no disrespect at all!) A million guys will claim they will.

    And, the by-far more likely probability is that they'd never get any opportunity to go out in a blaze of glory. A search-and-seizure warrant served while they're off at work, then a stop-and-frisk, followed by a cruiser ride off to the pokey is far more likely.

    The reality of how any such things may ever go down is ugly, and it highly speculative.

    The time to FIGHT is NOW, before any such things get off the ground.
     
  11. JB357MAG

    JB357MAG Member

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    It will never get to the point where they will be coming
    to our homes for our guns..........BUT if it does happen
    I will consider anyone entering my home without my permision
    to remove my private property as a criminal and I will defend my
    home and property.

    Jimmy
     
  12. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    Sam is correct. Altho there is a lot of chest pounding and bravado going on lately here and on other gun forums, Giving up one's life or way of life for a mere material possession is highly questionable. While I love me guns, I also love me wife, my kids and watching my grandkids grow. If their lives or safety are being challenged it would be different, but just because I can no longer obtain a military assault clone and a high cap mag on the open market, I doubt if I'll go down in a hail of gunfire in a battle I cannot win. Besides, when Charlton Heston made that infamous statement, he was holding up an antique, single shot firearm, not a AR15 with a high cap mag. I figure at some point in this argument, antis will use that as ammo against us.
     
  13. fallout mike

    fallout mike Member

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    If it comes to this and you don't take up arms then you have no business owning guns. This was the reason our founding fathers put this right at the top of the constitution. To enable us to stand up to tyranny. They did not put in the 2nd amendment that we can have guns to hunt, target shoot, or whatever you do with them. I think they made it pretty clear. Every debate on gun control that comes up people here want to say that its to prevent tyranny. Then these same guys say they may just lay down and give them up? I say those people should go to your next local "gun buy back" and go ahead and turn them in now. If you wont make a stand if it comes to this then you will cower away from any and every thing the rest of your life and not worthy of the freedom you have that our forefathers fought and died to give us.
     
  14. SaxonPig

    SaxonPig Member

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    Hmmmm... Yes, bragging is easy. We are all Rambo in our imaginations, but reality is a different story.

    Nobody can say for sure what he will do until the situation is actually on him. I suspect 99% of the population will submit unless the enforcement gets heavy handed. If the law is passed requiring the surrender of firearms many would refuse. And one by one guns would be quietly confiscated. If done quietly, it will happen mostly without incident. If cops start sweeping neighborhoods, throwing people on the ground in their front yards while they tear the houses apart searching for contraband weapons, it might trigger a reaction. All it might take is one gunshot to start open rebellion.

    If I were a young man with a family, I would likely not even contemplate putting my life at risk, even to defend my rights and principles. That's the fact. But I am not a young man. I have no dependents. And the prospect of dying in a hail of bullets from multiple MP5s, fighting for what I believe to be right, sounds more appealing than wasting away in a hospital bed regretting that I didn't stand up for what was right when I had the chance.

    I think that if the government wants my gun, they will have to send someone to take it. When they get it, and I know they will get it, I want the barrel to be hot and the magazine empty.
     
  15. Xfire68

    Xfire68 Member

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    Don't you think that if these searches and seizures started happening that the word would get out and people would organize and prepare?

    They most certainly do not have the manpower to perform enough seizures in a short enough time to make any real difference before people would either hide illegal items and our better ready themselves.
     
  16. pendennis

    pendennis Member

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    During the 1960's, I read about, and experienced the civil rights movement. While not raised in the so-called "Deep South", I saw the marches, sit-ins, and other means of civil disobedience, by a minority of Americans who were fed up with being second-class citizens.

    These folks were willing to suffer beatings, fire-hose assaults, jailings, and violations of the Bill of Rights, just to get the 1964 Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts passed.

    However, a few years later, when Federal judges issued orders mandating forced school busing, the folks affected by these court rulings were unwilling to apply the same resistance to court orders. They had civil disturbances a few times, but never had the courage to sit down in front of school buses, defying court orders.

    The stark difference, is that blacks were at the end of the rope, and they felt they had nothing to lose. The whites, in the 1970's, had jobs and homes, and figured the struggle wasn't worth it.

    As gun owners, and proponents of RKBA, we have to ask ourselves if we are willing to use the same means to insure that our civil rights are insured, or will it be like forced busing, and not worth our comfort?
     
  17. TIMC

    TIMC Member

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    Now that I am older, maybe wiser and defenitely crankier I find I get really worked up at the thought of gun confiscation. I think I would rather fight than give them up. I would hope there would be many more willing to band together and make a stand to at least let the agressors know they will have to earn them and payment will be high.

    I sincerly hope it would never come to that and I can die old in my bed knowing my grandchildrens rights are protected!
     
  18. fallout mike

    fallout mike Member

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    Sam, I agree with you that it could start that way, but then everyone would know and could plan accordingly. They can't hit every house while people are at work one day across the entire country.
     
  19. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Right. Of course. But that's what makes these threads so difficult to take seriously. We all have this idea of how such a thing would go down, as though there's going to be a big truck going house-to-house knocking on front doors.

    Like I said before -- your blaze of glory is more of a fizzle if those tasked with such confiscations have any idea of strategy. Who are you going to shoot if they come clean you out while you're at work and pick you up in your company's parking lot on your way out to your car? Or any of 100 such very workable strategies?

    Fight NOW. Wasting time contemplating having to make a final stand among the sand bags and ammo cans is just entertaining yourself.
     
  20. J-Bar

    J-Bar Member

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  21. jimbo555

    jimbo555 Member

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    For me it's not tyranny if it's a law passed by congress. An executive order is something different.
     
  22. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Oh, sure. Plan accordingly, though? What does that mean? Stop going to work? Stop living life so you can sit at home and wait for the end to come?

    And if these things start, these guys aren't going to be held up as heroes who died for a cause, they're going to be "crackpots" sitting in jail. The "scary loner with an arsenal and dangerous munitions stockpiled for the apocalypse ..." or however the press will say it.

    Look, I'm not in any way saying to lay down your arms or turn them in. I'm saying it's a dead-end road. If we have to turn that way, well ... we simply must fight hard enough NOW not to ever have to turn that way.

    If you've spent any time contemplating and preparing yourself for a B-O-G end, spend 10x that much effort going to visit your representatives and Senators, writing, emailing, calling, donating, organizing, taking people shooting, etc., etc.

    The fight is NOW. Not in a pile of spent brass when "they" come for you. If you think you're ready to face the "end game" FIGHT like it's END GAME NOW. If you believe you can commit everything THEN? Commit everything NOW.
     
  23. fallout mike

    fallout mike Member

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    So if congress just starts making laws in direct violation of our constitution then its ok with you? Congress says we all have to practice islam, turn in our guns, and receive a chip in our foreheads in order to participate in commerce then you would readily do it bc congress said its the law? So its not tyranny right?
     
  24. Lex Luthier

    Lex Luthier Member

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    Thank you men for keeping this ON the high road. These are serious questions and require thoughtful responses. I just needed some reassurance this morning.

    My wife would not move away from her family and her job. She is just how she is, and 2A/ guns are not as important to her, no matter how much I imply it. I have some friends out of state with whom I could bunk up and we could hold our own, but at a great cost to my current satisfaction in life. The prospect of leaving a job I love and changing everything at this stage in life is daunting to say the least. God bless you guys.
     
  25. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    It's not about making a point. It's about whether you would rather die on your feet or live on your knees.
     
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