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college student shot while assisting LE

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by gunsmith, Feb 27, 2006.

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  1. Soybomb

    Soybomb Member

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    I always find these discussions interesting. A few months ago there was the shooting in the washington mall and a few people questioned if the right thing to do if you were there and armed would be to defend someone in need or only worry about your own tail. The responses were along the lines of save your own butt, they had the chance to carry, legal liability, etc. Most people didn't seem like they would help someone in need in the situation. Many tore into the guy that did try to stop the kid and got shot in the process.

    Yet in this thread everyone commends this person and says we need more people like him, hopefully others would do the same, he should have been carrying. Whats the difference, am I missing something?

    I think both their actions are valiant.
     
  2. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    That's the American way: we always step in on the side of the victims.
     
  3. hot head

    hot head Member

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    tops to the young man

    its nice to see the public help out. i know more people like him are out there..

    thanks to the young man
     
  4. AF_INT1N0

    AF_INT1N0 Member

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    I have to agree with Gunsmith.

    Probably because when Police have to reholster to cuff individuals.

    The difference is that if I as a citizen have to pull my gun on a perp. He's either gonna get down, run, or get shot. There's no way in Heck I'm gonna try to cuff him.

    This is where it pays to have a partner. In this case the bystander made a good partner. (hope he gets better soon)

    Hope the drug dealer stays in the joint a good long time.
     
  5. hwp

    hwp Member

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    I hope the guy heals up fast. I know the officer was glad he helped.

    When I was a cop I had rather fat gay (about 400lbs.) that was resisting arrest. I got him on the ground and handcuffed and I just couldn't budge the mountain of lard and backup was still 15 min out. Two big redneck guys (one I had previously arrested for public intox) drove by and helped me stuff the guy in the cruiser.

    Another officer was once on the losing end of a fight in the parking lot of a bar and unknown man came out of the bar and brained the guy fighting the officer with a maglight which knocked out the suspect. The "unknown" man supposedly vanished into thin air and was never seen again.
     
  6. hot head

    hot head Member

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    info

    is there any way to get a hold of this person . to tell him how we think, and that we need more of his tpye
     
  7. Zen21Tao

    Zen21Tao Member

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    Statistically it is all a numbers game. There is a disportionate base rate between instances of a police officer enteracting with criminals when a firearm is involved and when a armed civilian uses his firearm to intereact with a criminal. In other words, more cops lose their guns simply because far more cops are in a position where they have to use their firearms to engage a criminal than an armed citizen is. [If you have 500 X and 50 Y there is more statistical probability that Z will be represented in X than in Y.]
     
  8. NineseveN

    NineseveN member

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    e-mail most likely.

    name @andrew.cmu.edu

    ...might need his middle initial. Or perhaps looking in the phone book, but calling his house would seema bit too much methinks.
     
  9. johnnytang24

    johnnytang24 Member

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    The following information is public:

    Benjamin Saks
    Junior
    Architecture
    bsaks at andrew.cmu.edu (replace 'at' with @)

    Thanks.
     
  10. 10 Ring Tao

    10 Ring Tao Member

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    Wrestling? No.

    Hose down the bad guy with pepper spray in such a way to not get the officer? Yes.
     
  11. gunsmith

    gunsmith member

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    10 ring

    I have lots of experience with pepperspray and you cant be that accurate in the situation described by the article, besides pepperspray isn't that effective against druggies on both drugs and adrenaline
     
  12. Flyboy

    Flyboy Member

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    Well, besides the different tactical situations--if I'm pinned down by a nutter with a rifle, I'm not going to draw attention to myself until I have a good opportunity to do so--there's the difference in what the threads are saying.

    The right thing to do is to render aid, consistent with some degree of your own safety (I can be of absolutely no help whatsoever if I'm laying dead on the ground). There is, however, a serious question of liability assosciated with doing the right thing. It's a symptom of our society, really--we've created such a mess that the old saw about no good deed going unpunished has actually come true. Doctors and other first-responders actually have "good Samaritan" laws written to protect them from liability. Imagine--you have to have a law to protect you from being sued for trying to keep somebody from dying.

    In general, we don't have such laws to cover those who intervene in a shootout. As such, there's a very good chance that, if you intervene, you're going to end up with a five- or six-figure legal bill as a best case.

    That sucks. But it's reality.

    What can you do? Well, you have to weigh it against your own conscience, and that's going to depend on the situation. Some things, I'm probably going to stay out of; others, I'll jump in. Depends on the situation (and who's involved--I'm more likely to get involved, and to a greater degree, if the victim is somebody I know and care about). I can't give a better answer than that. I can say, though, that I'd have a tough time shaving the next morning if somebody got hurt and I could have prevented it, and I know it up front.

    Gotta keep the man in the glass happy, first and foremost.
     
  13. 444

    444 Member

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    If that's all it takes to get free Steeler's tickets, sign me up.

    What is that famous quote ??
    Something like, all it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing ?
     
  14. dm1333

    dm1333 Member

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    +1 on what Gunsmith said about pepperspray

    In the CG our boarding officer and boarding team members have to get pepper sprayed, then defend themselves against an aggressor, draw their weapon and talk the person into the handcuffing position. A lot of them ask why they have to do that when we don't shoot them with a 9 or 40 before they get qualified. The simple answer is that if someone else on the boarding team used pepper spray you will probably get it right in your eyes and you need to know how it feels and that you can still function. It feels like dipping your face in a deep fat fryer but I have seen 5 foot tall 100 pound females take it and keep functioning. If the perp is on drugs it may have no effect at all.
     
  15. trickyasafox

    trickyasafox Member

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    update:

    so one of my ex girlfriends goes to cmu and is a junior, so i threw her the article in the off chance she knows the guy. turns out this is about the only good thing he's ever done. word is he's a special kind of bad name.

    glad to see when it really mattered he was a good guy and did the right thing. very impressive! just goes to show a person's character cannot be tested until circumstance forces a hand
     
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