Colorado Emergency
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Steel Horse Rider
Member
Calling the local party office is not a good idea. I am on the Executive Board of the Larimer County Republican Party and if someone is there to answer the phone it is merely a volunteer, probably a retired older female. The elected folks and the state party do not "check in" with us for information, mostly all they want is money and volunteers. Most state legislators are having weekend outreach meetings during the session. If you do not get notifications of these meetings call your local representative or senator at the Capitol building and ask to be put on their list. It helps if you are active in your party's caucus activities as they are always asking for e-mail addresses there and once you give them an address it will be used, at least in Larimer County it is.
This is why it is important to be registered something other than "None" or "Independent"! I don't like a lot of things the Republican Party does but my involvement has allowed me to know the right people and have some input (even though it is small in the grand scheme of things) on what is happening. If you are on the outside your impact is miniscule unless you believe in civil disobedience arrests. My elected officials are on the right side of this issue and know that I will support them in their fight, which includes giving them campaign donations when the anti-groups come after them.
This is why it is important to be registered something other than "None" or "Independent"! I don't like a lot of things the Republican Party does but my involvement has allowed me to know the right people and have some input (even though it is small in the grand scheme of things) on what is happening. If you are on the outside your impact is miniscule unless you believe in civil disobedience arrests. My elected officials are on the right side of this issue and know that I will support them in their fight, which includes giving them campaign donations when the anti-groups come after them.
Universal background check passed: debate ongoing on magazine capacity limits.
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22572461/major-battle-over-gun-bills-set-tuesday-at
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22572461/major-battle-over-gun-bills-set-tuesday-at
MachIVshooter
Member
As mentioned, HB13-1229 passed 7-4, despite overwhelming opposition from citizens and sheriffs alike. Their minds were made up. I had to leave before the vote on HB1224, the mag limit, lest my car be towed, but the bill's proponent testifiers ran out after only 40 minutes of the 2 hour allotment. There were still more than 100 of us there to speak in opposition when I left at 7:45.
Proponent arguments were made by mostly the usual suspects, and were the same tired, recycled diatribe.
The state NRA spokesman did an excellent job of destroying the proponent's statistics (which changed in each testimony)
Mr. Smith of Magpul was absolutely stellar, and even once assured by the committee that they would amend the bill so that it did not inhibit his business, he told them more than once that he still vehemently opposed the legislation on principle. I'm pretty sure he meant to tell them the company may still leave if it passes, but the chairman cut him off. Love the Magpul team!
Most of us did not have a chance to speak, but we were well represented by those who did, especially the sheriffs. The sheriffs representing the state sheriffs association were those from Larimer county, Elbert county
, Routt county, Weld county and Gilpin county. They did us proud, and a special thanks to sheriff Justin Smith of Larimer county is owed; He really hit it hard and hammered it home. They will probably still pass it out of judiciary, but at least now they know what kind of slumbering giant they've awakened. The look on Rhonda Field's (bill sponsor) face was priceless when the chairman closed the testimonies on HB 1229 and asked all who opposed that weren't able to speak to stand, and only about 5 people in the room of ~200 remained seated (and this doesn't count the overflow room downstairs, equally packed, people standing against walls and sitting on the floor)
The outlook is still rather bleak, given the majorities and governorship, but it's comforting to see the folks who turned out on such short notice.
I will update tomorrow, which is slated for the College campus carry ban and charging us for background checks.
As an aside, I do have letters to write regarding practices at the capital building. Public hearings still in session, but they locked the doors to the public at 5 pm. I went to check the time on my parking spot (couldn't remember if I'd be good to 6 or 8), and returned to locked doors. Fortunately, we managed to be let back in by a security person, but anyone trying to attend after work and not fortunate enough to get the attention of someone inside would not be able to, which certainly isn't right.
Proponent arguments were made by mostly the usual suspects, and were the same tired, recycled diatribe.
The state NRA spokesman did an excellent job of destroying the proponent's statistics (which changed in each testimony)
Mr. Smith of Magpul was absolutely stellar, and even once assured by the committee that they would amend the bill so that it did not inhibit his business, he told them more than once that he still vehemently opposed the legislation on principle. I'm pretty sure he meant to tell them the company may still leave if it passes, but the chairman cut him off. Love the Magpul team!
Most of us did not have a chance to speak, but we were well represented by those who did, especially the sheriffs. The sheriffs representing the state sheriffs association were those from Larimer county, Elbert county
, Routt county, Weld county and Gilpin county. They did us proud, and a special thanks to sheriff Justin Smith of Larimer county is owed; He really hit it hard and hammered it home. They will probably still pass it out of judiciary, but at least now they know what kind of slumbering giant they've awakened. The look on Rhonda Field's (bill sponsor) face was priceless when the chairman closed the testimonies on HB 1229 and asked all who opposed that weren't able to speak to stand, and only about 5 people in the room of ~200 remained seated (and this doesn't count the overflow room downstairs, equally packed, people standing against walls and sitting on the floor)The outlook is still rather bleak, given the majorities and governorship, but it's comforting to see the folks who turned out on such short notice.
I will update tomorrow, which is slated for the College campus carry ban and charging us for background checks.
As an aside, I do have letters to write regarding practices at the capital building. Public hearings still in session, but they locked the doors to the public at 5 pm. I went to check the time on my parking spot (couldn't remember if I'd be good to 6 or 8), and returned to locked doors. Fortunately, we managed to be let back in by a security person, but anyone trying to attend after work and not fortunate enough to get the attention of someone inside would not be able to, which certainly isn't right.
coloradokevin
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ILikeSA said:
I do think the opponents of the magazine capacity restriction came on much stronger than the opponents of the universal background checks. I oppose either piece of legislation, but I think our side did a better job in the magazine debate, which didn't conclude until around 9pm tonight.
Hopefully we prevail on this issue.
Also, lets not forget that the background check bill isn't law just yet... it still needs to be voted into law by the house and senate, and signed by the governor (all under Democratic party control). We may still be able to fight these proposed laws, but we definitely need to bring all of our resources into it.
Everyone who cares about gun rights needs to get involved in this issue somehow, lest Colorado start down a path that has already failed so many other states.
MachIVshooter
Member
Yes, and we still need to keep writing our congresscritters to 1) oppose it and 2) if they're going to pass it, they need to fix it so that it doesn't turn good, law abiding people into criminals. As written, this bill is a sloppy disaster that could ensnare just about anyone. It is vague, it is ambiguous, and it is dangerous. If it becomes law, it needs to do so with, at the very least, clear language that defines "transfer" as a permanent disposition of the firearm, because right now the language includes temporary transfers and is VERY murky about which ones would be OK and which would be an offense, and it would largely end up being decided in the courtroom during a trial.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
In the end, they amended the magazine capacity limit to 15 rounds for rifles and pistols, and 8 rounds for shotguns. There was also some debate about fixed tubular magazines for rimfire guns, but I missed most of that part of the broadcast.
In the end, the law passed 7-4 along party lines.
I'm not nearly as well-versed in the state legislature, so what's the next step? Does this get voted on by yet another committee, or does it go straight to a vote in the house and senate?
In the end, the law passed 7-4 along party lines.
I'm not nearly as well-versed in the state legislature, so what's the next step? Does this get voted on by yet another committee, or does it go straight to a vote in the house and senate?
.455_Hunter
Member
This is not over folks!
There are still many more steps before this becomes law.
Don't give up just because the bills passed a hand selected committee with a majority of anti-gun members.
We need to fight at all levels- Full House, Senate and the Governor.
There are still many more steps before this becomes law.
Don't give up just because the bills passed a hand selected committee with a majority of anti-gun members.
We need to fight at all levels- Full House, Senate and the Governor.
MachIVshooter
Member
Now it goes to appropriations, and if it gets through that, then a house floor vote. If it gets out of the house, then it starts all over again in the senate, same process.
Some in a position to know think the governor is unlikely to sign the mag limit bill. I think he will, but I've been surprised before.
We probably largely owe the amendment to the testimony of the sheriffs and to a man (forgive me, I don't recall his name) who was the victim of a violent attack by three armed actors. He was shot five times, and discharged 13 rounds defending himself. He made it clear in his testimony that a reduced capacity magazine may have cost him his life.
I, of course, adamantly oppose any restrictions, but if the bill becomes law, 15 rounds versus 10 is a small victory for our efforts today.
What a miserable day! My and my Sweetie's sense is that in the end they bumped up from 10 to 15 rounds because they're desperately afraid of a Constitutional challenge...which will happen!
With the great group of speakers, including the Colorado Sheriffs, I was honored to get in my 2-minutes worth.
My general take is that this is all MAIG...MAIG "experts," MAIG script.
It ain't over, but it's been a crappy day...
Michael B
With the great group of speakers, including the Colorado Sheriffs, I was honored to get in my 2-minutes worth.
My general take is that this is all MAIG...MAIG "experts," MAIG script.
It ain't over, but it's been a crappy day...
Michael B
I, of course, adamantly oppose any restrictions, but if the bill becomes law, 15 rounds versus 10 is a small victory for our efforts today.So,if this this bill passes,in Colo I could buy a new Glock22 or Glock19 with standard 15rnd mags but I would be prohibited from buying a new Glock17 with a standard 17rnd mag.Sounds like a clear violation af the"Common Use"standard.
coloradokevin
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Although I know most of us prefer 15 rounds to 10 rounds, I'd caution any of you against calling this a victory. It would be like NY state residents calling 10 rounds a victory since they are currently at 7. The point, of course, is that this kind of arbitrary and pointless legislation causes an unreasonable burden upon our 2nd Amendment rights, period.
Guns come in many different types and varieties. Some of my guns were made to take stock magazines that hold 30 rounds, some were made to take 3-4. In the guns I have that could be reasonably seen as home defense weapons, mine take: 5, 9, 10, 14, 15, 17, and 30 rounds, respectively. So, any given arbitrary number is likely to impact someone in a negative manner, while providing nothing in the way of safety for our citizens.
By increasing the legislated number of rounds to 15 from 10, the legislature is obviously attempting to appease us so that this measure can carry without much further opposition. I'm sure that each of you can see the problem with that!
Again, i know most of you prefer no magazine capacity restriction, I guess I just really want to emphasize that 15 rounds is not a small victory, it's a loss... just a marginally smaller loss. If that bill carried to law as is, I'd no longer be able to buy standard capacity magazines for a couple of our handguns, and a couple of our rifles.
Guns come in many different types and varieties. Some of my guns were made to take stock magazines that hold 30 rounds, some were made to take 3-4. In the guns I have that could be reasonably seen as home defense weapons, mine take: 5, 9, 10, 14, 15, 17, and 30 rounds, respectively. So, any given arbitrary number is likely to impact someone in a negative manner, while providing nothing in the way of safety for our citizens.
By increasing the legislated number of rounds to 15 from 10, the legislature is obviously attempting to appease us so that this measure can carry without much further opposition. I'm sure that each of you can see the problem with that!
Again, i know most of you prefer no magazine capacity restriction, I guess I just really want to emphasize that 15 rounds is not a small victory, it's a loss... just a marginally smaller loss. If that bill carried to law as is, I'd no longer be able to buy standard capacity magazines for a couple of our handguns, and a couple of our rifles.
HorseSoldier
Member
The problem is with elected leaders who are so oblivious to the world around them that they think "conceding" on five rounds will make any difference to the people arrayed against them.
Rom828
Member
The problem here is that what we are trying to do is to influence Democrats to break from their party line. My feelings of doom that all this will pass is motivating me more. Colorado is destined to the same fate as other states due to the rural area populace being outnumbered by the urban, who within the last decade have arrived here in droves to escape the cesspools created by the politicians they voted in. We need the politicians to feel that their future in public office will be limited by backing this legislation. I want to thank a good friend of mine who testified yesterday, Chuck Robles. He is the one who would not be alive today had the standard magazine in his pistol contained only ten rounds.
CoRoMo
Member
This is ridiculous.
If they truly believe that banning 10+ round magazines will save lives, they should ban them. If there was even a microscopic shred of evidence that could prove banning 10+ magazines saved lives, I WOULD SUPPORT BANNING THEM. But there isn't.
This concession to 15 rounds illustrates that this isn't about public safety, otherwise if it were they would die on that hill; they would stand their ground on 10-round capacity for the sake of the lives that would be saved.
But they offer up another five rounds? What the heck?!!? In the quiet of their heart, they know that they are not doing this for public safety. They are doing this for public control. They simply don't believe the American Citizen should be allowed to keep and bear certain objects. They are despicable, evil fascists bent on disarming the populace.
If they truly believe that banning 10+ round magazines will save lives, they should ban them. If there was even a microscopic shred of evidence that could prove banning 10+ magazines saved lives, I WOULD SUPPORT BANNING THEM. But there isn't.
This concession to 15 rounds illustrates that this isn't about public safety, otherwise if it were they would die on that hill; they would stand their ground on 10-round capacity for the sake of the lives that would be saved.
But they offer up another five rounds? What the heck?!!? In the quiet of their heart, they know that they are not doing this for public safety. They are doing this for public control. They simply don't believe the American Citizen should be allowed to keep and bear certain objects. They are despicable, evil fascists bent on disarming the populace.
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If I get pulled over and my vehicle is searched on the way to or from the range, how do I prove that my current mags are pre-ban? I don't see a serial# or mfg date on any of them.
What keeps me from driving to Wyoming and buying a bunch of mags with a capacity of greater than 15 rounds and claiming that they were purchased with cash prior to the ban?
Will the State of Colorado be searching all packages delivered to me by Fedex and UPS from states with no mag ban?
What keeps me from driving to Wyoming and buying a bunch of mags with a capacity of greater than 15 rounds and claiming that they were purchased with cash prior to the ban?
Will the State of Colorado be searching all packages delivered to me by Fedex and UPS from states with no mag ban?
longknife12
Member
Folks, logic is not in the vocabulary of the capitol critters! Several of us have met with the Dems.....most have NO idea as to existing laws and what they are voting on!!We have to continue to hammer and hope somewhere in the process a light will come on.
Dan
Dan
I couldn't make it to the Capitol yesterday but was able to watch most of the hearing on the background checks online...I was appalled at the lack of honesty and integrity of those supporting this bill.
Yep, what we have have is the ultra liberal elite from the Boulder/Denver metroplex ruining this great state.
I don't know if it would be helpful to contact the more reasonable Democrats in more rural areas. However I'd like to think the Governor who is up for re-election in 2014 is listening?
I wrote my state reps and the Governor this morning, after writing my national senators regarding senator Feinstiein's atrocity.
Yep, what we have have is the ultra liberal elite from the Boulder/Denver metroplex ruining this great state.
I don't know if it would be helpful to contact the more reasonable Democrats in more rural areas. However I'd like to think the Governor who is up for re-election in 2014 is listening?
I wrote my state reps and the Governor this morning, after writing my national senators regarding senator Feinstiein's atrocity.
Godsgunman
Member
Wow this is a real downer. I love Colorado and have always dreamed of moving there and have other family there. Looks like I'll have to rethink my plan. Keep fighting though also make known to your officials that they will be voted out next election period if they continue in this violation of rights. Also I know there are those who vote democratic for other reasons not pertaining to 2nd amendment rights. Its time to wake up and not be drawn in by the talk and rhetoric. They "talk" about other issues but they "act", even feverishly, when it comes to 2nd amendment and other Constitutional Rights. Lets wake up and protect our Right first then see if they actually act on anything else they say to get your vote.
HorseSoldier
Member
PMags have date of manufacture stamped on them. Not sure on other brands of updated mags.
Though from what has been said about Magpul's stand, I wouldn't be surprised if someone innocently forgot to reset the date stamp machine in the months after the bill hypothetically (and hopefully doesn't) go into effect as a law in Colorado. What with getting packed up for the move out of state and getting set up in Texas or where ever, someone must have just oopsed that one . . .
Rom828
Member
The Dems will settle for this until the next atrocity occurs, and then they will demand more. This truly is a slippery slope. Fight like hell now and lets all band together to defeat anything with a (D) next to it next election cycle. I heard some radio ads from Bloomberg's MAIG on locally, I really resent the out of state money coming in to fight against us.
MachIVshooter
Member
It will be nigh impossible to enforce, especially with the sheriffs flat out telling them that they don't have the resources to investigate and prosecute people over this law that the sheriffs don't support in the first place.
Today was the same mockery as yesterday. They have effectively disenfranchised our side (literally did yesterday by locking the doors). They don't care how ridiculous the bills are, how disconnected and obtuse the sponsor is (and the sponsor of the college campus carry ban really is that far out there), and they certainly don't care how many oppose or how valid our arguments are. They completely dismissed the county sheriffs of Colorado. Completely. Sheriff Smith challenged them that if they really want to do something that is effective in reducing violence, to work with law enforcement to find real solutions, to give LE the tools to actually detect and arrest the true criminals. He extended his hand to the judiciary committee, and they bit it.
I actually got to speak today, and though I am NOT a good public speaker, I do believe I delivered an impactful, if slightly disjointed, argument on behalf of my sister. I represented her because the campus carry ban will directly affect her as a CSU alumni, student and employee. She has a unique perspective, given that she is a member of academia, and also in our camp. Doctorate in microbiology (graduated cum laude), currently going for her second doctorate in veterinary medicine, an employee of Colorado/CSU as well as the federal government (CDC). She has also worked for a local gun store, is a CCW holder, an NRA certified pistol instructor, a hunter, recreational shooter, collector, and an instructor of unarmed self defense. When she's not busy with those things, she rides horses and sings in a local choir. To say she is a busy overachiever would be a gross understatement. After pointing that out, I went on to share her story of armed self defense that ended with no shots fired and no injuries to any party. Unfortunately, I lacked the time to elaborate on other salient points, such as the fact that she and I did not grow up in gun culture, but in fact in a very Democrat anti-gun family (both sides), and made our decisions to be armed and supporters of freedom consciously and without influence. I also did not have time to point out that we are survivors of firearm homicide. Still, despite my argument and many other valid, logical, articulate and original testimonies from others, the committee voted party line and passed the bill out of committee 7-6.
After the last two days, I am thoroughly disenchanted with our broken system. You think the citizens have a voice in this? We don't. You think these legislators really have our best interests at heart? They don't. Doesn't mean I'm giving up, but I'm definitely feeling a bit despondent right now.
HorseSoldier
Member
Though it sounds like they are setting the stage for Denver to fully embrace its apparent trajectory to become a 2nd Chicago, with a massive disconnect between them and the rest of the state.
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