Colorado Man Charged for Standard Capacity Magazine

[berettaprofessor]

Okay, he's a felon in possession....but to be charged with having the magazine, don't they have to have proof that it was bought after the law went into effect?

 

[MErl]

Correct, they need some evidence he got them recently. There was no part of that law that looked at prohibited persons differently than anyone else.

 

[Ironicaintit]

The only reason I could think that maybe the magazine could be an issue, is if he moved to the state after the ban went into affect. I dont think thats the case here, but could be applied to persons who mive to the state after the fact.

I think the story is reaching for justification of a new law that nobody likes (doesnt matter that the fool broke way more serious laws leading to this)

 

[MachIVshooter]

So much for the law not being enforced.

I don't believe any CLEO has flat out said that they wouldn't do it; they have stated that it would be difficult to enforce, and that they weren't particularly interested in trying.

As has been pointed out, this is a typical case of piling on every possible charge to get the best combination of easy conviction (plea deal) and max sentencing. My guess is the mag charge will be one of the first bumped off in a plea, and should a deal not be made, it and the other minor charges may not even be brought into a trial. When they're going after someone for multiple felonies, trying to also convict of moderate misdemeanors is a low priority.

 

[Rio Laxas]

My guess is the mag charge will be one of the first bumped off in a plea, and should a deal not be made, it and the other minor charges may not even be brought into a trial. When they're going after someone for multiple felonies, trying to also convict of moderate misdemeanors is a low priority.

I'm agree with you. I doubt the DA is going to want to try him on the magazine charge if he can get him to plea on the others. The Coloradoan is reporting that in this case the magazine charge is a felony because it was possessed during the commission of a felony.

Specific language under the law notes that a person who "sells, transfers or possesses a large-capacity magazine commits a Class 2 misdemeanor." Large-capacity is defined as a magazine that is designed to accept or can be converted to hold more than 15 rounds of ammunition.

Legally speaking, the charge rises to the level of a Class 6 felony in this case because Moscow reportedly possessed the magazine during the commission of a felony — a measure built into the criminal code at the time of its adoption.

http://www.coloradoan.com/story/new...acity-magazine-charge-filed-larimer/74887236/

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

Be aware that the Coloradoan is a Gannett owned leftist newspaper, this guy is a real kook (I was at an advisory board meeting for one of the Front Range CC programs the day after this information was released and several of the administration members made comments), and the Sheriff is a real straight shooter. The DA is more of a career RINO. I have known them both for about ten years. The Ft. Collins Police Department and the Sheriff's Department have long had differences concerning the role of law enforcement. I would expect the police department and the Coloradoan to hype the magazine issue as much as possible in order to "get back" at the Sheriff for his actions when the law was being presented and after it was passed. Sheriff Smith was the head of the Sheriff's Association when the law was in the State House but the members of the committee would not allow him to present their case as to why the law was ineffective and unenforceable. Reading stories from a distance can sometimes blur the details and context, but either way this guy is not a test case nor is this going to be proof of the law's validity.

 

[joem1945]

Maybe it's a good thing if they get him off the streets. He sounds like a loose cannon.

 

[Tirod]

It's not like the Sherriffs of NY State saying they wouldn't enforce. So far the CO LEO's aren't chasing down mag owners, this is a felon who made threats to a shrink - medical liability is the key.

The charge is exactly that, tacked on, not the primary cause of his arrest. His defense will likely be able to negotiate it - or even accept it as the only punishment. That is the legal worry for future consideration. I doubt he's concerned with supporting the 2A, his issues are much more personal and flipping the 2A to get a reduction in his time served is certainly an option.

That's why there are always convictions on a law despite the overall legality of it.

 

[CoalTrain49]

In 10 years we will have 30 states with laws against any magazine that hold more than 10 rounds. Sign of the times. We will also have 30 states with UBC.

That's why when I buy a firearm that's always a consideration for me. I don't want to wake up some morning and find out I'm a felon like they did in CT. I have one firearm that uses a 15 round mag but it's classified as a relic, everything else is 7.

I live in one of those states (WA) that's going blue like CO. and OR. It wouldn't surprise me if they didn't pass a 10 rd. ban next year. They passed a UBC here last year.

I vote against it but it's like trying to turn back the tide.

 

[Jeff H]

The therapist felt the threat was credible and notified campus officials and Fort Collins police. Moscow was taken in for a 72-hour hold after an Oct. 23 traffic stop.

Investigators searched his home and vehicle and located an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle, a Glock .40-caliber handgun and hundreds of rounds of ammunition. As a convicted felon, Moscow is barred from possessing weapons. Officers also found hydrocodone pills for which Moscow lacked a prescription and amphetamines, court records show.

This guy is a moron and has way bigger legal issues than a silly hicap magazine ban.

 

[X-Rap]

Tacked on or not the precedent is sobering. I can envision this being done in other situations from driving v to fish and game violations.
The law is there to use and every instance in which it's used adds precedence and validation. Best it's repealed before the courts rule on it IMO.

 

[jlbraun]

Colorado's thug law only bans transfer, not possession, past the drop dead date.

All over the state, gun shops and everyone else are openly flouting the law.

 

[Capybara]

They do the exact same here in California. Nobody get s busted just for high capacity magazines but when they bust someone for other charges, the possession of illegal (not acquired before the year 2000 here) high cap mags is piled on, whenever possible. It's a bad law, unenforceable essentially, which is why many California gun owners were still buying them at gun shows as parts kits for more than a decade after the law was passed. I know of at least two people who have en entire pallet of them, they were a good investment in 1999. The DA still has to prove that you acquired them post-2000, which is nearly impossible unless the accused is dumb enough to shoot off their mouth that they did.

This guy was a bad guy who obviously shouldn't have had guns but the magazine laws, both in Colorado and here, are a joke and nearly impossible to enforce.

 

[CoRoMo]

I don't believe any CLEO has flat out said that they wouldn't do it...

Sure they have. A number of them too. And blatantly.

Larimer's sheriff especially has said he and his department WOULD NOT enforce the law. Neighboring Weld's sheriff Cooke has also, specifically, said that he would not enforce the mag ban. He said his officers would IGNORE the law; his words.

There's actually some good guys out there.

But this magazine charge wasn't brought by LEO, it was brought by the DA, so nobody's pointing fingers at FTC city police here.

 

[berettaprofessor]

The only reason I could think that maybe the magazine could be an issue, is if he moved to the state after the ban went into affect.

I certainly hope that's not the case; because then no one who has a 30 round magazine should ever move to the state.....not that I'm going there anytime soon.

 

[Ironicaintit]

I certainly hope that's not the case; because then no one who has a 30 round magazine should ever move to the state.....not that I'm going there anytime soon.

Im not a lawyer, but im fairly certain that is the case.
Which, of course, is by design. A ban by eventual attrition. The magazines in question are not "dated", but birthdays and ownership/occupancy documents sure are.

 

[Ironicaintit]

To add to that...
In the long run, I think the Sheriffs are maybe doing us a disservice in not enforcing the law. Most people just shrug, and buy a magazine "kit", or just flatly ignore the law altogether, and so dont need to get all riled up to clamor for a repeal of the law.

If it were stringently enforced, thered be (id guess) a lot more activity on that front.

 

[waterhouse]

I agree with most that the stacking of charges will allow room for a plea deal. I don't know if it is right, but it happens all the time with bad people.

He was released with an ankle monitor? Maybe the LE folks here can explain how this works, does it have an internal GPS that someone has to monitor all the time to see where he goes? Or would he be ordered to be confined to his house and it just alerts authorities if he leaves? Then what?

Both types are available; the GPS one costs more.

Sometimes you are allowed to leave your house but you have a curfew, so the house proximity one allows your parole officer to check and see if you are home on time.

Some criminals have been caught committing new crimes due to their GPS monitors. "Where were you at the time of the burglary? Just kidding, we know where you were!"

 

[CoRoMo]

Moving To Colorado After July 1, 2013

...if he moved to the state after the ban went into affect.

I certainly hope that's not the case; because then no one who has a 30 round magazine should ever move to the state...

Im not a lawyer, but im fairly certain that is the case.
Which, of course, is by design. A ban by eventual attrition. The magazines in question are not "dated", but birthdays and ownership/occupancy documents sure are.

A good bit of inaccurate information flowing in the recent posts here.

+15 magazines that enter the state today, next year, whenever, only need to have been lawfully obtained prior to 07/01/2013. They are not illegal and can be used and possessed without fear.

To add to that...
In the long run, I think the Sheriffs are maybe doing us a disservice in not enforcing the law...

It is not simply a law that can be enforced. The magazine charge in this case will be dropped because of this fact. I guess it is a false charge as well, if the reports are true that there is absolutely no proof that the magazine(s) were unlawfully obtained after 07/01/2013; just the DA's assumption. If that's the reason the charge gets dropped, shame on the DA for bringing an unfounded, false charge.

 

[jr_roosa]

Magpuls all have date stamps on them. Makes things pretty easy for enforcement if that's what he had. I don't think it's too hard to figure out when most commercial magazines were made, especailly for a felony conviction.

Call up the manufacturer and show them some photos..."we moved that spot weld when we got new machines in 2014." Or something similar.

Also if he bought them with his credit card out of state, then it doesn't take Columbo to subpoena his credit card info and then subpoena receipts based on that.

Old GI mags might be trickier.

It's all conjecture, but I think that "unenforceable" and "difficult to enforce" are two very different things.

J.

 

[CoRoMo]

Magpuls all have date stamps on them. Makes things pretty easy for enforcement...

Not exactly.

If I buy individual magazine parts, or even a complete magazine repair kit, and the mag body is made by Magpul, the body will have that date stamp on it, but the magazine receiving that repair part will not become illegal by using that part.

I don't think it's too hard to figure out when most commercial magazines were made...

I think it is 100% completely impossible to look at a magazine and know for certain that the parts were all made and all acquired as a completed magazine after any particular date.

Just looking at particular date indicators only tell the viewer about that specific part of the system.

 

[MachIVshooter]

The only possible way in which a person can be proved guilty of violating this law, short of an admission, is if the magazine in question did not exist prior to 07/01/2013. IOW, if a weapon was introduced after that date, and used a proprietary magazine that had never been available, at all, anywhere, prior to the effective date, then the law is enforceable. Or if it is a magazine design that did not exist prior, such as a new manufacturer, or if Magpul introduced a gen 5 AR magazine, etc. Otherwise, it can only be done if some idiot admits to having purchased or is caught in the act of purchasing after that date.

Where we run into problems is down the road, because if we don't get this undone, nobody born after 07/01/2013 can ever legally possess a >15 round magazine in this state. And that was part of the design; they knew it would be toothless and useless in the short term.

 

[old lady new shooter]

if we don't get this undone, nobody born after 07/01/2013 can ever legally possess a >15 round magazine in this state.

Just curious, would that also be true if the person inherited it from a parent?

 

[MachIVshooter]

Just curious, would that also be true if the person inherited it from a parent?

Yes. Unlike the federal 1994 ban, which made it unlawful to produce >10 round magazines for sale outside of military/govt/LE but grandfathered existing magazines and had no prohibitions on transfers, with this statute, the owner is grandfathered rather than the magazine itself. You cannot lawfully transfer a >15 round magazine to anyone other than LE and FFLs in CO, period.

We even looked into the possibility of trusts, but bottom line is anyone born after the effective date can never lawfully possess standard capacity magazines in CO so long as this statute stands. My daughters were born in 2010, and I gifted them a bunch prior to the effective date (they had no clue why, still really don't understand 2 years later). My son, however, was born in 2014; he is SOL in this state unless we get it undone.

 

[MErl]

That will make it incredibly easy to enforce in another 20-40 years. The long game is being played and we're losing badly here.