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COLT I don't understand.

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Walking Dead, Aug 6, 2011.

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  1. Walking Dead

    Walking Dead Member

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    I just don't understand why one of the greatest American gun manufactures in history has not seemed to make any advancements in technology in a 100 years or so. I know the 1911's are brilliant and the cowboy style revolvers are works of art but what about the rest of the market. Why are they not doing anything else?
     
  2. Broker

    Broker Member

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    Poorly run company that seems to stay on the edge of bankruptcy. An unsuccessful attempt at a new firearm would probably put them out of business. They seem to refuse to change with the times.
     
  3. GEM

    GEM Member

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    They tried with the Colt 2000 fiasco and then pushed for smart guns.

    The former didn't run and the latter was an attempt to jump on a gungrabber's ploy. Only safe guns. Taurus also was big into that. I know a guy who worked on a grant from Taurus to do such.

    Safe guns were:

    1. An infringement of the RKBA as they would be mandated.
    2. Made some sense for police retention but they never worked and police rejected them.
    3. Made a touch of marketing sense as Colt supposedly found in surveys that there were folks who would buy a smart gun but not a standard handgun.

    There were also some other semi handguns that tried to cater to new trends but weren't successful. DA only, etc.
     
  4. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    After the turn of the century I was squadded in the pitts at Camp Perry next to a man who had been offered the job of either President or plant manager at Colt. Something like that. It was a very high position.

    After visiting Colt, he declined the position. He said the entire problem with Colt were the owners. They did not care about firearms, were in fact anti gun, the only thing they were interested in was sucking the maximum amount of profit from the corporation.

    He took the manufacturing managers to a modern machine shop with all the CNC and they just shook their heads. Colt management would not fund modern machinery and what Colt was using were old, very old machinery.

    Colt got fat and happy with its monopoly on the US service rifle. For decades, the US Army has been wedded to Colt with retired General Officer's retiring to Colt and lobbying their buds to stay the course. It is very interesting to read how the Army maneuvered to maintain a sole source status for Colt. http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m4-carbine-controversy-03289 You could call this “regulatory capture” This is not unique to Colt, just look at the fight over the Air Force Tanker contract award to Boeing. Every Defense Industry Corporation lobbies to be a perpetual sole source for the Government as the taxpayer will pay, and pay, and pay. Colt made huge profits with the M4 carbine when they were sole source contractor. http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...dividual-Carbine-Competition-06942/#more-6942

    They are in a great position in the current M4 contract bid. Anyone who makes M4’s for the Government cannot build and sell them to foreign countries as the TDP is proprietary to Colt, maintaining Colt’s monopoly of source.

    You can expect Colt to continue its focus on the very profitable defense sector and to ignore the private section.

    They also have a huge patent base and sue the heck out of anyone, suppressing competition and innovation in the US market.

    I think the best thing that could happen is for Colt to go away.
     
  5. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    I do not see where they are having any effect.

    All of their patents are long expired.

    As a retail consumer is there anything that Colt sells that you cannot buy from another source?
     
  6. DPris

    DPris Member

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    Well....
    Colt did not get "fat and happy" on the US service rifle. Government sales, domestic & foreign, DID keep Colt afloat.

    Colt's TDP was given out some time back.

    Colt is not ignoring the civilian sector.

    The military side was the first to get heavy CNC upgrading, since that's where sales were (and are).
    The other side got CNC later on, but Colt has put millions into upgrading both companies.

    Colt has not invested heavily in new designs largely because they've had limited funds to play with.
    The company is no longer what it used to be, but I disagree strongly that Colt going away is the best thing that could happen.

    They build quality ARs for public consumption, and the same with the Peacemaker and 1911 variants.
    Why you'd want to toss those out of the market merely because Colt doesn't come up with New & Exciting is beyond me.
    Denis
     
  7. jimmygrish

    jimmygrish member

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    They never could compete against S&W for or in the private market and Glock ate their lunch worse than Government Contract cancellations. The 1911 contract was terminated back in 1949 and if it was not for Richard Stoner and the AR 15 design they would have been belly up back in the 60's.
     
  8. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

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    They build quality ARs for public consumption, and the same with the Peacemaker and 1911 variants. Why you'd want to toss those out of the market merely because Colt doesn't come up with New & Exciting is beyond me.

    I don't wish them out of business, but I am a little on the apathetic side. Also, they don't make anything I'm interested in that cannot be had for, in many cases, less money and with the same or better quality. It will be interesting to see what the future brings.
     
  9. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    Me too

    Same thing with Smith & Clinton

    They are a parts company
     
  10. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    According to my old pal Jim, gone now these sixteen years, it's hard to achieve goals if you don't have them.

    Companies that don't innovate, even in old-fashioned industries with lots of tradition, get left behind. I'm every inch a Python guy, which is why I'll tell you it's groovy new 1955 technology.
     
  11. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    "As a retail consumer is there anything that Colt sells that you cannot buy from another source?"

    A Colt.
     
  12. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    Colt's stock(up till the last few days of course) has been doing very well. Try to find one of their 1911s in stock anywhere. Doubt if they are going to disappear anytime soon.
     
  13. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    funny

    But you can draw a horsey on the side of you Rock River and have a better gun.

    Lots of cowboy guns out there of better quality.

    1911s...a gazillion better guns out there.


    Note...I am a huge fan of old Colt revolvers.
    4 Diamondbacks, 1 Python, 1 Cobra, 1 Officer's Target.

    So I sip the Blue Kool Aid...but I prefer mine aged. (1970 or older)
     
  14. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    A- that they are not stocked is not indicative to success.

    B- Why bother?
     
  15. cacoltguy

    cacoltguy Member

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    If it ain't broke dont fix it. After 100 years, 1911's are still the being manufactured and purchased like mad. IMO, Colt happens to make some of the best non-custom 1911's on the market with quality components. (Unlike some 1911 manufacturers who blow all their money on multi-page ads in every gun magazine and then pack the internals of their firearms with cheap crap components)

    And besides, modern advancement in firearms technology seems to consist of rolling out another mall-ninja AR design in a different caliber with 35 picatinny rails instead of 34. I'll pass
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2011
  16. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    Colt is one of the most broken companies in existence.

    The government bailed them out...they attempted and failed many things. (including the "smart gun")

    They have been passed around like a $2 ho when the fleet comes in. They have been run by scum like Steven Sliwa, and Ron Stewart.

    Nobody loves their Colts as much as I do. But the company that now calls itself Colt is pretty much a welfare queen.
     
  17. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

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    That's equivalent to saying only Dodge sells pickups.
     
  18. eazyrider

    eazyrider Member

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    Colt is and forever will be my favorite gun company. I love my Snakes and I do believe that my Python is one of the best handguns ever made. With that being said, it saddens me to think of Colt as just scrapping by offering the same old stuff, good as it might be. I would love to see them re-open the DA revolver line but I know that it would not work. As much as I would love the new revolver's and I would buy one, how many others would? They would be priced very high and would not sell. I hold out hope that my favorite gun company will on day rise to prominence again.
     
  19. Magno

    Magno Member

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    Amen to that.

    If they just started making Pythons again I would be satisfied
     
  20. DPris

    DPris Member

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    Guill,
    Once again, I have to totally disagree with you.

    No Rock River 1911 pattern pistol ever built is or was "better" than a Colt.
    There are emphatically NOT "lots" of cowboy guns out there of "better" quality.
    There is certainly not a "gazillion" better 1911s out there.

    Colt isn't perfect, but that's a very ill-informed statement that bears no relation to reality.
    If you genuinely believe your assertions, you use a different set of criteria than most of the rest of us do in determing "better".
    Denis
     
  21. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    Colt's idea of modern advancement in arms seems to be the Stoner design from 1957.

    Or there was the Double Eagle and the Colt "All American 2000" (which led to bankruptcy).

    No wonder they are afraid of new designs...they really suck at it.
     
  22. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    I was thinking of the ARs...not the 1911
     
  23. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    As to the assertion that there are a lot of better 1911's...that is easy.

    Charles Daly, Kahr Arms, Kimber, Les Baer, Para-Ordanance, Springfield STI, Wilson

    The list goes on and on

    As to the cowboy guns...I will defer to you. I only know what I read. Have not shot a single action revolver in years.
     
  24. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

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    Their 1911s were as good as their ARs.
     
  25. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    In May, when I bought my SIGP220, I asked to see the new Colt M1911's. I had read John Taffin articles about how the new Colts were better built than ever, heard Colt fans say the same thing. I asked the store manager about this and he shook his head and handed me two factory new Colts when I asked to examine them.

    They were as loose as my series 80's M1911's from the 80's. The manager then put the cheapest Springfield Armory M1911, I think it was the GI model on the table. This pistol was half to 2/3rds the price of a Colt. And it was tight, amazingly tight. I mean as tight as the old NM pistols.

    Colt, I ain't paying extra for the name, they have to give me value for the money.
     
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