Colt Peacemaker Pattern SA Revolver Carry Advice

[Mr. Mosin]

Seeing as I've seen multiple threads concerning carry of a Peacemaker pattern revolver of some sort, whether a Colt or clone, or a Ruger; over these past several months... I had an idea. People seem intent on carrying these beauties, so; instead of bashing them and screeching "NO !!!", why not put advice and tips on carry, maintenance, etc, etc al; here instead ?

Seems like a far more useful thing to do than screeching "NO !!! You gotta carry XXX tacticool, plasticool autoloader or you'll immediately die in your gunfight at a minute past high noon !!!".

So.... let's begin, shall we ?

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I have carried Colts for years in Cowboy Action Shooting. I would not dream of carrying one in real life, but then again I don't carry period in real life.

The one piece of advice I would give anyone who is intent on carrying a single action revolver with the old traditional Colt style lockwork is to always carry it with the hammer down on an empty chamber.

These are the parts inside a Colt. The lower arrow is pointing to the tip of the trigger called the sear. The upper arrow is pointing to the so called 'safety cock notch'. When the sear is in the 'safety cock notch' the firing pin has been withdrawn from the primer of a cartridge under the hammer, so in theory the revolver will not discharge if the hammer is struck a heavy blow. Notice the notch has an overhanging lip to trap the sear. Notice how thin the sear is. Long experience has demonstrated that if there is a live round under the hammer, and the hammer is struck a heavy blow, for instance what it would receive if dropped from waist level, there is a strong possibility the sear would break off or the over hanging lip of the notch would break off, allowing the revolver to discharge. If the hammer is struck such a blow, chances are the muzzle will be pointing up, perhaps in the direction of the guy who dropped it.






Yes, a modern Ruger with a transfer bar is completely safe to carry fully loaded. The jury is still out on the new Ubertis that have a retractable firing pin.

 

[NeroM]

Follow the 150 year old advice,
Carry on empty chamber.

 

[Rexster]

I believe that relatively few folks read the posts; they simply react to the title of the original post, so, get ready for plenty of nay-shriekers. OK, having said that, some thoughts:

1. Handling an SA sixgun is about hammer management, rather than trigger management. The “four rules of firearm safety” do not exactly and completely fit, in the case of true-SAA-pattern revolvers, and some other pre-20th-Century weapons, because a broken sear, or a modified sear, or missing trigger, or broken hammer notches, can/will allow the weapon to fire, with no involvement of the trigger. Rather than list additional safety rules, I will just say, truly understand and manage that hammer, while paying particular and diligent attention to safe muzzle direction.

2. Preserve the inner parts, and the finish on the exterior of the cylinder, by lowering the true-SAA-pattern hammer ONLY from full cock. If one wants to completely lower the hammer, from half-cock, for example, cycling the hammer completely, to full cock, then lower the hammer. Obviously, this makes safe muzzle direction ALL THE MORE important.

3. Load one chamber, skip one chamber, load four chambers, pull to full cock, and lower the hammer on what will be the empty chamber. Sounds simple. It is simple, if everything is peaceful at that moment in time, and one is diligent about paying attention. Pay attention!

4. If one cocks the hammer of a loaded true-SAA-pattern weapon, the nicely-pre-arranged empty chamber will no longer be under the hammer. Learn how to make that weapon safe again! This is what I see as the most-serious drawback of the traditional SAA-pattern revolvers, as a cocked weapon requires multiple steps to make it again safe to carry. This does not mean that I am anti-SAA, but warning that an SAA will require more diligence, to handle safely.

5. Do not cock a loaded SAA, or its faithful design copies, unless there is a serious need to do so, because, as indicated in #4, above, there is nothing casual about decocking, and then getting an empty chamber under the hammer.

 

[Kleanbore]

f one cocks the hammer of a loaded true-SAA-pattern weapon, the nicely-pre-arranged empty chamber will no longer be under the hammer. Learn how to make that weapon safe again! This is what I see as the most-serious drawback of the traditional SAA-pattern revolvers, as a cocked weapon requires multiple steps to make it again safe to carry. ....Do not cock a loaded SAA, or its faithful design copies, unless there is a serious need to do so, because there is nothing casual about decocking, and then getting an empty chamber under the hammer.

Due to the compelling need to be able to re-holster immediately after a use of force incident in a situation likely fraught with stress and confusion, this mitigates against the advisability of carrying an SAA pattern revolver for self defense.

Should one insist on carrying a single action revolver, a Ruger New Vaquero would be a much safer choice.

Of course, one would still have the serious disadvantages of a slower rate of controlled fire, slow reloading, and the need to cock the gun before shooting, which creates exceptional risk.

The OP suggested "advice and tips on carry...". The obvious advice is DON"T, if you have any choice at all.

I once used a Colt SAA in DGU incident. I shiver when I think of the risks that I incurred.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Well, I certainly appreciate all the good "wishes" from all the inputs in this thread . . . I always like to see the "pontificating" going on as to how close to Neanderthal those of us that DO (most of the time) rely on a S.A. for primary defense.
It does occur to me that I don't personally know anyone that has had the misfortune of shooting themselves accidentally with a S.A. revolver . . . but I do know personally more than a couple and friends of mine that have buddies that have shot themselves with an "empty" semi-auto handgun. So, to suggest that learning a whole new skill set to a Neanderthal seems to be more risky (to themselves or bystanders) than just leaving them alone and let them be happy in the "world" they know . . . usually really really well. I've seen more than a few folks empty a S.A. faster than most can get six out of a semi and actually hit targets . . . but sounds like a good topic for another thread . . .

Mike

 

[Mr. Mosin]

Well, I certainly appreciate all the good "wishes" from all the inputs in this thread . . . I always like to see the "pontificating" going on as to how close to Neanderthal those of us that DO (most of the time) rely on a S.A. for primary defense.
It does occur to me that I don't personally know anyone that has had the misfortune of shooting themselves accidentally with a S.A. revolver . . . but I do know personally more than a couple and friends of mine that have buddies that have shot themselves with an "empty" semi-auto handgun. So, to suggest that learning a whole new skill set to a Neanderthal seems to be more risky (to themselves or bystanders) than just leaving them alone and let them be happy in the "world" they know . . . usually really really well. I've seen more than a few folks empty a S.A. faster than most can get six out of a semi and actually hit targets . . . but sounds like a good topic for another thread . . .

Mike

I concur.

 

[Kleanbore]

Well, I certainly appreciate all the good "wishes" from all the inputs in this thread . . . I always like to see the "pontificating" going on as to how close to Neanderthal those of us that DO (most of the time) rely on a S.A. for primary defense.

It's not that at all.

Reasonable people who understand self defense will no doubt agree on several things:

• It is not a good idea to carry a firearm that must be cocked and in a condition in which the trigger pull is very light before firing , unless it has a thumb safety, a la 1911.
• It is not a good idea to cock any firearm that that a light single action trigger pull in a use of force incident, unless it has a thumb safety, a la 1911.
• It is not a good idea to cock a firearm for which manual de-cocking is required, except in the caae of a 1911.

It does occur to me that I don't personally know anyone that has had the misfortune of shooting themselves accidentally with a S.A. revolver . . . but I do know personally more than a couple and friends of mine that have buddies that have shot themselves with an "empty" semi-auto handgun.

That tells us nothing.

So, to suggest that learning a whole new skill set to a Neanderthal seems to be more risky (to themselves or bystanders) than just leaving them alone and let them be happy in the "world" they know . . . usually really really well.

Are you saying that you really think it less risky to lower the hammer on a loaded round than to follow Rexter's prudent advice?

I thing some good, well-coached FoF training with some shoot/noshoot scenarios would quickly disabuse you of your beliefs.

Particularly if you are thrown out after having lowered the hammer on a loaded round....

 

[Rexster]

It is not that an SAA, or its faithful design copies, are unsafe. I find them to be quite safe. It does take more physical steps to make them safe to re-holster, if they have been cocked. One has to lower the hammer, carefully, then pull the hammer to half-cock, to free the cylinder, then count clicks, while rotating the cylinder so that the empty chamber is “next-up,” then, pull the hammer to full cock, and lower the hammer on what will be that empty chamber. Anyone who wants to buy a single-action revolver, but has yet to commit to the SAA system, should seriously consider that.

The case heads are visible, so one can visually monitor the positions, rather than counting clicks, if there is sufficient light, and one’s eyes are not needed elsewhere.

Again, I am not preaching for or against SAA carry; just offering my thoughts, for those asking about SAA carry.

 

[45 Dragoon]

It's not hat at all.

Reasonable people who understand self defense will no doubt agree on several things:

• It is not a good idea to carry a firearm that must be cocked and in a condition in which the trigger pull is very light before firing , unless it has a thumb safety, a la 1911.
• It is not a good idea to cock any firearm that that a light single action trigger pull in a use of force incident, unless it has a thumb safety, a la 1911.
• It is not a good idea to cock a firearm for which manual de-cocking is required, except in the caae of a 1911.

Where did you get the idea that my trigger pull is light? ! In fact, mine are 2 1/2 - 3 lbs positive (rocks the hammer back). Does your "1911" rock it's hammer back ?

That tells us nothing.
No sir, tells YOU nothing.

Are you saying that you really think it less risky to lower the hammer on a loaded round than to follow Rexter's prudent advice?

You can lower the hammer to half cock, open the loading gate, pull the pin and roll the cylinder out. No need to let the firing pin touch the primer. (You probably know that though . . . )

I thing some good, well-coached FoF training with some shoot/noshoot scenarios would quickly disabuse you of your beliefs.

The problem is, you have decided you should think (thing?) for me . . . I choose to think for myself. You may or may not agree . . . and that's OK with me.
If I was in my 20's, 30's or 40's maybe, but I'm not. I'm 63, never owned anything but a S.A. revolver, am quite happy and comfortable with my abilities. My son has a 1911 and that's great!! But even he isn't trying to change the "old man" (he knows my abilities as well, I taught him!! )

Particularly if you are thrown out after having lowered the hammer on a loaded round....

Thrown out of a self defense situation? Are you serious? "I" am in control of my self defense situation not the "other" guy !!! It's life or death man !! What in the world are you talking about?!!!
I work all the time and not in the least interested in "learning new ways".

I appreciate the concern you have for me protecting my life but I've already thought about it, you're a little late . . .

Mike

 

[Kleanbore]

Thrown out of a self defense situation? Are you serious? "I" am in control of my self defense situation not the "other" guy !!! It's life or death man !! What in the world are you talking about?!!!

A class.

FoF training, using simunitions.

I work all the time and not in the least interested in "learning new ways".

The OP requested tips and training on how to carry a Colt-pattern single action revolver.

I suggested trying one out in realistic exercises.

appreciate the concern you have for me protecting my life but I've already thought about it, you're a little late . . .

Protecting your life is a big part of it. Not shooting an innocent is, too. That's where not cocking the gun until it is necessary, and lowering the hammer quickly and safely, come into play.

That's where the shoot/no-shoot exercises become important.

 

[Mr. Mosin]

@Kleanbore your not actually helping this thread.... nor helping someone who wishes to carry a SAA or clone/copy.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Ok, let's take it from the top:

Op requests a "why" carry a S.A. rather than an emphatic NO!!!

Response 1 - DJ. Would not dream of carrying a S.A.

Response 2 - Good advice

Response 3 - point 1 - fine
Point 2- has nothing to do with preserving internal parts. You can lower from Full to half
cock, pull the pin, roll the cylinder out.
Point 3 - how to load
Point 4 - see point 2
Point 5 - see point 4

Response 4. - Mr . Kleanbore. Sentence 1 - Don't carry a S.A. for defense (for some reason you must re-holster under stress)
Sentence 2 - "My" S.A. isn't good enough, get a Ruger !
Sentence 3 - "slower rate of controlled fire" - How so? Cocking with the off hand can and is extremely fast while maintaining target.
Sentence 4 - "obviously . . . DON'T ".
Sentence 5 - WOW!! and you're still here!!! They DO work

You sir did exactly what the O.P. asked not to do.
I tried to point that out to some and you decided I needed a lesson.

I carry a S.A., my wife carry's a double action, my son carry's a 1911 . . . everybody's happy except a few folks on a forum . . . I really don't care what any of ya think. After 2 incidents personally, I'm still here as well!

Mike

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

well first off:
NO !!! You gotta carry XXX tacticool, plasticool autoloader or you'll immediately die in your gunfight at a minute past high noon !!!


Now that that's out of the way...

Load one skip one, load the rest. (5 rounds only in a traditional SAA)
Learn to shoot the gun one handed. That's one of the primary strengths to the Single Action Revolver you best be able to do that reasonably well.
Learn to shoot the gun with both hands quickly but accurately.

Next,
Understand it's limitations. There are many: Capacity, reloading, sights, etc

Now,
Minimize the impact of those limitations as best you can:
be able to to do a full reload in under 15 seconds.
practice kicking out shells efficiently without burning your hand (some methods work for hot guns, some do not).
practice pulling cartridges from your pocket in 2's and 3's and getting them through the loading gate.
bonus points if you can do it without looking.

Lastly,
understand that 99% of armed people who wish to do you harm will be using a technologically superior firearm. You're bringing civil war era equipment to WW3


And just a final note (the part you don't want to hear):
I carry one for very specific scenarios but do not recommend them as a primary defensive piece. In real deal combat events nostalgia won't save the day.

Now, if it's all you have, better than nothing.

 

[.38 Special]

If I ever decided to CCW an S.A. revolver I would have a hard think about taking the Gunsite class. I'm not sure if they are currently offering it - last I checked it was only available in combination with the lever-action rifle class, and who knows what Covid will do to the whole thing anyway - but getting some instruction on the topic from those serious men and women must be of tremendous value.

 

[Kleanbore]

@Kleanbore your not actually helping this thread.... nor helping someone who wishes to carry a SAA or clone/copy.

I have pointed out Rexter's observaitons about cocking and de-cocking, and discussed the issues RE: doing so in real SD situations with that kind of revolver.

I have suggested engaging in some realistic SD training exercises

I have predicted that one who does so will likely reconsider.

I know enough about SD training and about SA revolvers to believe that with some confidence.

Driftwood Johnson, who knows more about SA revolvers than any of us, has said that he would never dream of carrying one "in real life".

Corporal_Agarn has pointed out the disadvantages.

If my posts are helpful in dissuading anyone who, for some nostalgic reason, "wishes to carry" one from doing do, or in persuading them to try one in realistic training so they can learn for themselves, I am indeed helping them.

No one should decide what to carry before learning some things about self defense--including, among many other things, the critical need to get the gun out of one's hand before being seen by an arriving first responder, to avoid being shot.

The Colt SAA would not be my last choice for SD carry--that would be a Springfield 1842 smoothbore, a pin-fire revolver, a cap and ball revolver, a pepperbox, a derringer, a tiny NAA .22, or a Colt Vest Pocket or the like, but it would be waaay down the list.

As Rexter says, " In real deal combat events nostalgia won't save the day".

I once took my Colt SAA revolver to a cabin in the mountains, after having had a large animal show interest in getting into the kitchen some time before. A human broke in. I'm glad I had the gun. But knowing what I do now, I realize that I would have been a lot better off with something else.

 

[Mr. Mosin]

@Kleanbore you still miss the point of why I kicked this thread off.

 

[.38 Special]

I once took my Colt SAA revolver to a cabin in the mountains, after having had a large animal show interest in getting into the kitchen some time before. A human broke in. I'm glad I had the gun. But knowing what I do now, I realize that I would have been a lot better off with something else.

How would "something else" have been better, in that situation?

 

[Kleanbore]

@Kleanbore you still miss the point of why I kicked this thread off.

Not at all!

You asked for advice and tips.

The best advice, in addition to advice about not cocking and how to safely decock one, is to not do so.

"People seem intent on carrying these beauties" speaks of ignorance and naivete on their part.

 

[Kleanbore]

How would "something else" have been better, in that situation?

Excellent question!

The extremely light trigger pull of any cocked revolver is a negligent discharge, a lawsuit, and possible charges for criminal negligence waiting to happen.

That's why DA-only revolvers (or semi-autos with heavier trigger pulls) are widely recommended for SD. This has been discussed at length in ST&T over the years.

I had the hammer bobbed on a Ruger, and my Kimber has a concealed hammer.

The othe issue has to do with de-cocking, discussed above at length by Rexter.

 

[.38 Special]

Excellent question!

The extremely light trigger pull of any cocked revolver is a negligent discharge, a lawsuit, and possible charges for criminal negligence waiting to happen.

That's why DA-only revolvers (or semi-autos with heavier trigger pulls) are widely recommended for SD. This has been discussed at length in ST&T over the years.

I had the hammer bobbed on a Ruger, and my Kimber has a concealed hammer.

The othe issue has to do with de-cocking, discussed above at length by Rexter.

So in what way did your S.A. fail you in the situation you described?

 

[Mr. Mosin]

@Kleanbore instead of seemingly being bound and determined to strike this down; why not contribute in a positive, non-bashing of platform way ?

 

[Kleanbore]

So in what way did your S.A. fail you in the situation you described?

It did not. I dodged the bullet.

The fellow turned and departed; I did not fire, deliberately or unintentionally.

But I now understand the serious risks involved.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Sir, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about!!

I get revolvers that in fact HAVE scary light trigger pulls!!! That's a manufacturers problem !!!
If I send it out that way, its my problem!! That's why every revolver leaves here with a positive engagement (MUST rock the hammer back) with nothing less than 2 1/2 lb trigger pull!!
So the trigger HAS to be pulled, not touched. It's a safety for me as well as the owner and those around him/her. That comes from "instruction" which you (and all should) reguard so highly!!

You seem to do a lot of assuming. When I retrieved my S.A. El Patron Competition from my glovebox, as my assailant was yelling at me, he suddenly didn't want to have anything to do with me!! I didn't have to touch the 2 1/2 lb POS engagement trigger or even easily cock the less than 3 lb hammer draw to bring my weapon to ready . . . I'm the only one one that knew all that . . . he just knew that he didn't want to mess with me any more. That, is what it is all about!! They KNOW what what they're up against!! No one wants an extra hole inum . . . especially a .45!! (No matter where it comes from!)

Mike

 

[Kleanbore]

I get revolvers that in fact HAVE scary light trigger pulls!!! That's a manufacturers problem !!!
If I send it out that way, its my problem!! That's why every revolver leaves here with a positive engagement (MUST rock the hammer back) with nothing less than 2 1/2 lb trigger pull!!
So the trigger HAS to be pulled, not touched.

That's no where near heavy enough for reponsible defensive carry. Do some research here on the subject