Colt Peacemaker Pattern SA Revolver Carry Advice

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The Colt Single Action Army revolver that impressed me most when I was a child was carried by a man who said "a gun is a tool, Marian".

I did not fully understand that at the time, but I did resent Marian Starrett's dislike of guns.

I had to have a SAA. I finally got one, and I really liked it.

I now understand that for SD carry, a gun is a tool ,and really nothing more.

It is to be used for effective protection against death and serious bodily harm in a criminal attack, while avoiding being shot by first responders and while avoiding negligent discharges that can lead to suits and criminal charges.

Part of avoiding such suits is to not provide a plaintiff with anything that could be used to portray your lawful, deliberate defensive shooting as an unintentional shooting caused by a light trigger pull. The threshold for persuasion drops from beyond a reasonable doubt to a mere preponderance of the evidence, and a unanimous jury verdict is no longer required. A "hair trigger", as they'll call it, won't help you a bit.

That was the raison d'etre of DA-only revolvers.
 
Kleanbore said:
The Colt Single Action Army revolver that impressed me most when I was a child was carried by a man who said "a gun is a tool, Marian".

I did not fully understand that at the time, but I did resent Marian Starrett's dislike of guns.

I had to have a SAA. I finally got one, and I really liked it.

I now understand that for SD carry, a gun is a tool ,and really nothing more.

It is to be used for effective protection against death and serious bodily harm in a criminal attack, while avoiding being shot by first responders and while avoiding negligent discharges that can lead to suits and criminal charges.

Part of avoiding such suits is to not provide a plaintiff with anything that could be used to portray your lawful, deliberate defensive shooting as an unintentional shooting caused by a light trigger pull. The threshold for persuasion drops from beyond a reasonable doubt to a mere predominance of the evidence, and a unanimous jury verdict is no longer required. A "hair trigger", as they'll call it, won't help you a bit.

That was the raison d'etre of DA-only revolvers.
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Kleanbore.... you and others fuss about the SAA... but it's sights are at the least on par with most pocket autos and snub .38's most carry. It also sends a chunk of lead far better suited as a man-stopper down range- generally a .357 Magnum or a .44/.45. Any idiot that argues with that, they need to do some serious non biased research. It also is a package far easier to handle and manipulate than many of the pocket autos and small frame .38's most seem fond of carrying. In regards to the "light trigger"... remember... in regards to a SAA, treat the hammer as a trigger. Most who carry em are far more capable with em than 99 percent of those who buy a snub .38, fire five rounds through it, and stick it in their pocket, never to be fired again.

Anything else I need to be aware of ?
 
Well first of all, I tune cap guns for the most part and set them up (as far as triggers) as already described. I also do conversions the same way. Even though many semi autos are from 3 - 7 lb ranges, that's not my bag. Dig? Most are "fun guns" many are for SASS . ALL are safe!! Folks on line have adrenalin rushing through them (as well as around them!!) They're competition guns!!! My guns have won several State championships and if the closest thing to any of these folks is there "Goon gun" then more power too them !!! It'll go BANG and do what they need done!!! Safely!!!!!

Mike
 
45 Dragoon said:
Even though many semi autos are from 3 - 7 lb ranges, that's not my bag. Dig? Most are "fun guns" many are for SASS . ALL are safe!! They're competition guns!!!
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We are speaking here of guns for defensive carry, the use of which will be subject to the worst kind of unfavorable post-incident examination, with potentially terrible consequences.

Competition is something else entirely.
 
Mr. Mosin said:
Kleanbore.... you and others fuss about the SAA... but it's sights are at the least on par with most pocket autos and snub .38's most carry. It also sends a chunk of lead far better suited as a man-stopper down range- generally a .357 Magnum or a .44/.45. Any idiot that argues with that, they need to do some serious non biased research. It also is a package far easier to handle and manipulate than many of the pocket autos and small frame .38's most seem fond of carrying. In regards to the "light trigger"... remember... in regards to a SAA, treat the hammer as a trigger. Most who carry em are far more capable with em than 99 percent of those who buy a snub .38, fire five rounds through it, and stick it in their pocket, never to be fired again.
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And?
 
Look, people can carry whatever they want. It's a free country. And other people can say whatever they like about what that person carries, if that person talks about it. Once again, it's a free country.

Similarly, if I want to practice photography with the box camera my parents had when I was a kid, I can do it, because I still have it and it still works. I can even get real good with that camera. But if I ask how I can best use it for taking pictures when something important, like a hit-and-run accident, happens, the first advice I am going to get is, "Don't use a 1950's box camera." I can get mad at that advice if I want to, but that would be pretty dumb of me, because a box camera IS a pretty poor choice for that. There has been a lot of progress in cameras in the last 65 years. There has also been a lot of progress in pistols since 1873. Maybe not as much, but still, a lot.

So do what you want, it's a free country. But don't get upset at people who talk sense to you. You get to have your own opinions. You don't get to have your own facts. A lot of people don't seem to get that any more.

PS - If cameras don't do anything for you, make up your own example about somebody who wants to use a Ford Model A for his daily driver.
 
Monac, those are not bad analogies.

We an all enjoy an SAA revolver, an old film Leica or Bolex, a slide-rule, or a 1929 Ford, but we know their limitations.
 
And to that note, I have brought to the masses, coil spring actions, coil spring hands for Colt actions (cap guns as well as Peacemaker copies) and other additions . . . as well as the same for Remington revolvers (a first in the industry!)). That translates mostly to dependability /functionality as much as anything! (See what Freedom Arms offers!!)

As far as anything else brought up, I drive an '88 BMW 535i it's a pig and I'll be the first to admit that but, it will still surprise most of what's "out there" and will soon be upgraded to show what one can do to a pig!!! Lol

Mike
 
I drive antique vehicles: a 1957 Chevrolet Bel Aire, a 1967 Mustang coupe, and a 1970 Ford F100.

I would not try to drive them cross-country, but they get me three miles to work just fine.

Old stuff... antiques and whatnot, are very cool.

My first handgun was a Ruger Single Six, and I shot it more than weekly as a teenager.

Squirrels, rabbits, and beer bottles were in serious danger out there in the fields.

To this day I still shoot SA revolvers better. Cocking them is a muscle memory. It is cocked as I draw, or as soon as I've fired.

I've never carried a SA revolver for SD. I normally carry a LCR, or sometimes an LCPII.

However, I am good with a SA revolver and confident in my skills with one. I would not be unarmed or harmless with a 3.5" 45 caliber SA revolver under my coat.

I carry a small, light DAO handgun because I hope to be able to draw and fire quickly even if someone suddenly jumps on me from close range.

I'm usually in town, or in the nearest medium-sized city, and people can get close to you, especially around corners and such. A SA revolver would not be ideal for that.

However, out in open country where no one can really "jump" you, I would be totally okay with a SA revolver for SD.
 
Mr. Mosin said:
Seeing as I've seen multiple threads concerning carry of a Peacemaker pattern revolver of some sort, whether a Colt or clone, or a Ruger; over these past several months... I had an idea. People seem intent on carrying these beauties, so; instead of bashing them and screeching "NO !!!", why not put advice and tips on carry, maintenance, etc, etc al; here instead ?

Seems like a far more useful thing to do than screeching "NO !!! You gotta carry XXX tacticool, plasticool autoloader or you'll immediately die in your gunfight at a minute past high noon !!!".

So.... let's begin, shall we ?
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I don 't carry a gun on the streets or in town - I do carry a bad attitude and sometimes a good knife but never a gun - but I do carry a variety of single-action revolvers when I go into the swamps to camp, hunt, or just walk around enjoying fresh, clean air and no cell service. My preference is a side holster, leather, hip height so the butt touches my elbow, and with a loop - not a snap - over the hammer. A good stiff belt is all that's needed. Gould, Ross, Hunter, and I have some older no-longer-produced leather holsters for the cross shoulder, small-of-back, shoulder harness, etc. hanging about, too but they never walked and wore as comfortable for me as a plain old belt holster.

Single action revolvers are handy because they're flexible. I can load up a .32 mag load in my Ruger that'll take down a black bear if I do my part and put the bullet where it needs to go, or a mild .32 S&W (short) load for rabbits and squirrels if I get a hankering for Brunswick Stew - but, a .44 mag RSBH or .357 mag RBH will do the job on a bear quicker and with less finesse and with a mild .38 Spl the RBH just might get me a rabbit. I'm thinking there wouldn't be enough squirrel for a spoonful of stew even with a mild .38Spl or much rabbit even with a mild .44Spl. Never tried. Don't think I will, either.

I like .22's for the woods too - snake shot, rat shot, subsonic, supersonic, insanely fast HP, you name it - and the Ruger SS is much lighter than a SBH .44 or BH .357. But it's likely to piss off a bear and get me eaten so... I only carry the RSS if I'm also carrying a rifle. One whose name starts with a "3"... ;)

Good thread idea. Nothing wrong with a good revolver if you can carry it smartly and use it effectively.
 
45 Dragoon said:
Well, I certainly appreciate all the good "wishes" from all the inputs in this thread . . . I always like to see the "pontificating" going on as to how close to Neanderthal those of us that DO (most of the time) rely on a S.A. for primary defense.
It does occur to me that I don't personally know anyone that has had the misfortune of shooting themselves accidentally with a S.A. revolver . . . but I do know personally more than a couple and friends of mine that have buddies that have shot themselves with an "empty" semi-auto handgun. So, to suggest that learning a whole new skill set to a Neanderthal seems to be more risky (to themselves or bystanders) than just leaving them alone and let them be happy in the "world" they know . . . usually really really well. I've seen more than a few folks empty a S.A. faster than most can get six out of a semi and actually hit targets . . . but sounds like a good topic for another thread . . .

Mike
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With you on that, Mike.
I know three LEO's who shot themselves re-holstering a Glock. All three are TI's. All three are still TI's, still swear by the Glock for duty carry, and rightly blame themselves for not paying proper attention.
I know a former carry permit holder - casual acquaintance from work - who shot himself in the gut re-holstering a Glock-type trigger-safety mini-9. He was in rehab for months and carries a nasty scar next to the belly-button.
Another casual acquaintance I knew - through the LGS - died doing so with a Glock-type mini-45 - possibly a branded Glock, I'm not sure since I read about it after-the-fact. Shot himself down the thigh, rupturing the femoral artery. He bled out before the ambulance could get there. He went shooting alone like an idiot to practice quick-draw from concealed. Not smart!
Common sense and attention span is a lot more important than some folks give credit, regardless of the type of weapon. Mishandle one of my blades and you're likely to lose a finger. I keep my carry knives sharp! I'm not saying I'll never have an AD with a SA or any other weapon - it happens to the best of us and I'm not the best - or that I'll never own a trigger-safety pistol - I already have a SA XDm in .40 and it's sweet! - I'm just saying the folks who think retro-SA's are inherently more "dangerous" or prone to mishandling aren't thinking straight. It's a gun. Respect it. Pay attention. Or else.
 
I'm not going to wade into the ongoing argument because I think that is exactly what the OP was trying to avoid. I will relay my own thoughts and experiences and leave it at that. I will say that Gunsite has a course on it and that would seem to lend more credibility to the practice.

https://www.gunsite.com/classes/defensive-lever-gun-and-single-action-revolver/

I will say up front, in such a way that makes me uncomfortable, that I have probably fired more rounds through single action revolvers than most the people in this thread. I have also spent more time/effort working to run and reload them fast than anyone in this thread. I have also been shooting modern combat Tupperware for 30yrs. Much less than SA's but enough to be familiar. So I think I'm well versed in all the available platforms. I know how fast I can shoot one and I know how fast I can reload one. I know that it may sound slow to have to cock the hammer for each shot but when you know what you are doing, the hammer is being cocked while the gun comes down from recoil and the sixgun can be fired blazingly fast. We ALL know the single action revolver has disadvantages. There is no need for us to drone on and on about the obvious. IMHO, a lot of folks 'think' they more disadvantaged than they actually are and that is always obvious in these threads. Much of that stems from a few major misconceptions. First, that you're gonna need 15-20rds in a gunfight. Second, that you're gonna need a reload during the firefight. Third, that not only is the speed with which one can empty that 15-20rd magazine in a modern semi-auto an advantage but that it can be done meaningfully quicker than the SAA in a practiced hand. Statistics show that the first three points are far-fetched. Personal experience shows us that semi-auto is not meaningfully quicker to fire. This renders the magazine capacity, reload speed and rapidity of fire arguments somewhat moot. Again, we're talking civilian self defense, not military or police use (to counter those arguments before they're made) or facing angry mobs, which seems to be en vogue these days.

Also in my opinion, the average cretin you are likely to encounter that forces you into a gunfight, is probably not going to be Taran Butler. If you have trained to the point that you feel comfortable with an SA, you are already at an advantage over your potential foes. I know people think they're gonna have an all night running gunfight with ex-special forces terrorists at Nakatomi Plaza but it is just highly unlikely. In my opinion, with the average gunfight with the average opponent in mind, there is no tactical disadvantage for the first five rounds. It is only when the SA is empty that you have a problem, this is a given.

If we follow the basic rules of safety, manipulating the hammer is a non-issue. The hammer should only come back after you have already made the decision to fire. However, should you have the need to not fire, the first thing you do is remove your finger from the trigger and point it in a safe direction. Only then do you lower the hammer. On a traditional sixgun, I would advise lowering to the half cock notch. This is safe enough to holster but you're also not giving away a round should the need to fire arise. However, we're slicing our odds razor thin here. Most of us will never have to fire a shot in anger. That is a good thing and makes most of this purely academic.

With all that said, I don't normally carry a single action revolver. Not because they are not fast. Not because they only hold five rounds. Not because they are slow to reload. Because a pistol like the Ruger LC9 is light, flat and powerful enough.
 
Mr. Mosin said:
Seeing as I've seen multiple threads concerning carry of a Peacemaker pattern revolver of some sort, whether a Colt or clone, or a Ruger; over these past several months... advice and tips on carry, maintenance, etc, etc ?
Click to expand...
.
No expert here so my only advice would be to choose one (SA) with a transfer bar or similar safety. Ruger or Freedom Arms or ? A transfer bar simplifies the "make safe process" by eliminating the need to lower the hammer on an empty chamber. You also gain an extra round (6 loaded instead of 5). Beyond that there is the generic advice to strive to be proficient with it and know the particular weaknesses of the particular firearm which in this case is decocking safely.
Personally I am so slow at reloading one I don't see a benefit of spending time working on it. Shaving a few seconds off wont help me one bit.

IMO: An uncocked single action revolver with a transfer bar is probably the safest design as far as a negligent discharge is concerned.
Cock it though and it becomes the least safe.

IMO In a self defense situation any firearm (assuming proficiency) ups your odds of prevailing far more than the incremental improvement of one design over another.

I picked up my first SA revolver, a Ruger Blackhawk a few months ago. It balances well and is comfortable on the belt. Oddly enough I keep thinking about carrying it. Was even browsing for a a better holster for it last night. Still I don't think I will be carrying it.
 
CraigC said:
I'm not going to wade into the ongoing argument because I think that is exactly what the OP was trying to avoid. I will relay my own thoughts and experiences and leave it at that. I will say that Gunsite has a course on it and that would seem to lend more credibility to the practice.

https://www.gunsite.com/classes/defensive-lever-gun-and-single-action-revolver/

I will say up front, in such a way that makes me uncomfortable, that I have probably fired more rounds through single action revolvers than most the people in this thread. I have also spent more time/effort working to run and reload them fast than anyone in this thread. I have also been shooting modern combat Tupperware for 30yrs. Much less than SA's but enough to be familiar. So I think I'm well versed in all the available platforms. I know how fast I can shoot one and I know how fast I can reload one. I know that it may sound slow to have to cock the hammer for each shot but when you know what you are doing, the hammer is being cocked while the gun comes down from recoil and the sixgun can be fired blazingly fast. We ALL know the single action revolver has disadvantages. There is no need for us to drone on and on about the obvious. IMHO, a lot of folks 'think' they more disadvantaged than they actually are and that is always obvious in these threads. Much of that stems from a few major misconceptions. First, that you're gonna need 15-20rds in a gunfight. Second, that you're gonna need a reload during the firefight. Third, that not only is the speed with which one can empty that 15-20rd magazine in a modern semi-auto an advantage but that it can be done meaningfully quicker than the SAA in a practiced hand. Statistics show that the first three points are far-fetched. Personal experience shows us that semi-auto is not meaningfully quicker to fire. This renders the magazine capacity, reload speed and rapidity of fire arguments somewhat moot. Again, we're talking civilian self defense, not military or police use (to counter those arguments before they're made) or facing angry mobs, which seems to be en vogue these days.

Also in my opinion, the average cretin you are likely to encounter that forces you into a gunfight, is probably not going to be Taran Butler. If you have trained to the point that you feel comfortable with an SA, you are already at an advantage over your potential foes. I know people think they're gonna have an all night running gunfight with ex-special forces terrorists at Nakatomi Plaza but it is just highly unlikely. In my opinion, with the average gunfight with the average opponent in mind, there is no tactical disadvantage for the first five rounds. It is only when the SA is empty that you have a problem, this is a given.

If we follow the basic rules of safety, manipulating the hammer is a non-issue. The hammer should only come back after you have already made the decision to fire. However, should you have the need to not fire, the first thing you do is remove your finger from the trigger and point it in a safe direction. Only then do you lower the hammer. On a traditional sixgun, I would advise lowering to the half cock notch. This is safe enough to holster but you're also not giving away a round should the need to fire arise. However, we're slicing our odds razor thin here. Most of us will never have to fire a shot in anger. That is a good thing and makes most of this purely academic.

With all that said, I don't normally carry a single action revolver. Not because they are not fast. Not because they only hold five rounds. Not because they are slow to reload. Because a pistol like the Ruger LC9 is light, flat and powerful enough.
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I was trying to avoid the poo throwing contest this has apparently turned out to be. Gah.
 
Kleanbore said:
Not at all!

You asked for advice and tips.

The best advice, in addition to advice about not cocking and how to safely decock one, is to not do so.

"People seem intent on carrying these beauties" speaks of ignorance and naivete on their part.
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A Colt or Remington - or clone - in a hip holster around my parts would get you less attention in the grocery store than a man-bun and a pair of Birkenstocks. We don't all live in NYC and some of us live where real cowboys still raise real cattle for real food. And they ride real four-wheelers doing it! :D

I don't personally carry a gun so my advice was more for outdoors carry. I feel perfectly well protected running fence lines carrying a Remington '95 clone in .44-40 WCF in a hip holster. The big danger is from rabid coyotes, wild pigs, dogs, big cats like Bobcats and Puma who run the grazing lands looking for sick or lame cows, such like that. We get an occasional trespasser thinking the grazes are okay for them to wander around and even once in a while a theif will go looking for unlocked storage buildings. Those types turn pale at the sight of a single-action and the sound of the three clicks knowing they're only a split-second away from taking a bullet. I never had a homeless Joe try to stand me down while I was pointing a Remmie at him. I do take them to the Pastor for cleaning and feeding, tho.

Best way to carry any revolver is hammer-down on an empty chamber in comfortable holster you can wear for days and draw from quicker than a Bobcat can cross the trail in your direction. If it won't, don't carry it.

ATB and let's all remember we're on the same side, here. :cool:
 
Mr. Mosin said:
I was trying to avoid the poo throwing contest this has apparently turned out to be. Gah.
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I think it's a great question. I'm more for open carry than concealed with a single-action - the frames are larger and the hammer tends to snag, IMO - but what's wrong with carrying under a coat? For that matter, what's wrong with open carry where it's legal? I have a shoulder rig for a medium-frame revolver I bought for carrying under a jacket years ago because it's a pain getting the rain out of a leg iron rig. It fit a Ruger Single-Six great, I could stuff the Cimarron .38 Spl "Lightning" knock-off into it fine, and most important, my .32 magnum RSS, unlike the .22LR RSS, has a bird's-head grip which didn't poke me in the ribs; but, it chaffed around the arms something awful after a full day of walking around so I stopped using it and switched back to my Ross Leather hip holster. It rides higher than the Hunter drop-leg rig, gets covered by my jacket to keep rain out, and doesn't snag as badly as the shoulder rig. To me, having a gun where there's no cell service and the nearest Sheriff is an hour away is what matters. What it is matters less than how it carries when you're sweating and have to move around a lot. A SA carries better in those conditions than a wunder-9 and NO ONE argues with a loaded gun pointed at their mid-section. If they do, the Sheriff is only an hour away and the land-owners all know me.
 
While it is not “carry,” I did, some years ago, have a defensive scenario that suited the SAA-pattern revolver, well enough. I developed carpal tunnel syndrome in both wrists, and wore splints, while sleeping, and during some waking hours. There were two firearms, on hand, that could be operated without first shucking those splints, my SA revolvers, and my Remington pump gun. (I would only wear both splints, at the same time, when inside the home.)

My duty pistols, at the time, were wide-body auto-loaders. Trying to fire them, with a splint on the weapon hand, just might have launched the pistol from my grasp, requiring, at minimum, a re-establishment of the grip. My chief all-around revolver, was, of course, my long favored GP100, but the combined bulk of the factory grip, plus the splint, compromised my hold, too much for comfort. The slender, nicely-low-volume rubber grips on my USFA China Camp Single Action, allowed me to lock the tip of the thumb into the tip of the middle finger, while wearing the splint.
 
I would never conceal an SA, but since you said "carry" not "conceal", here's my experience.

I have carried a 3.75" barrelled Super Blackhawk while motorcycle trail riding all over local hills in a Simply Rugged pancake holster. That large chunk of metal carries surprisingly well, very snug and close to the body, and I have never had nor felt like I was going to have a retention issue. The holster is well fitted and holds the gun. I do not use any sort of retention strap. Also, I am a portly fellow, so it's not like it's fitting concave to my body.

My SOB OWB holsters don't work in cars, so I bought a Simply Rugged cross-draw Cattleman for my Ruger Birdshead Single Seven. I haven't worked out load and front sight adjustment for the gun yet, so I have not carried in public. The holster is the usual SR high quality, and gun fit is great.

I usually carry "modern" guns for CC, but I like to remain versatile. So, I'll carry whatever the hell I want, thank you.

Oh, and I did get IWB loops for the Super Blackhawk holster. Tried it out around the house, and it went from snug fitting OWB, to Elephant Man's tumor IWB. YMMV.
 
When I had my SAA, it was unlawful to carry in our area.

I often wished that I could--that thing was meant to be carried.

Had I been allowed, I might well have carried it for defense. I could shoot it well.

I knew absolutely nothing about self defense then.

I knew a lot about shooting, but self defense is about a lot more more than shooting.

And the otter aspects of self defense influence how we go about shooting in self defense, and how we choose what to carry.

The defensive shooing courses I have taken required semi-autos of duty size or slightly smaller, in belt holsters; no revolvers were permitted, though one of the instructors was a highly ranked competition shooter with revolvers; and no mouse-guns.

We all realized why after engaging in some of the drills.

Here's one: the student is walking in a three sided berm. The need to engage a target somewhere within in the berm--perhaps up to 170 degrees around to the left and ten feet away--materializes suddenly, and the student must quickly draw from concealment while moving offline, shoot three to five rounds into an area the size of an upper chest within perhaps two seconds. look around, repeat the action with another target, look around while moving to safety , reload without looking at the gun looking at the target, re-holster quickly, and dial while still remaining observant.

I have carried several different firearms using several different holsters, tying to find the right combination for me.

My current choice is a Smith and Wesson Shield EZ 9 in a Crossbreed OWB holster. Had the EZ 9 not come on the market with some desirable features last December, I would still be carrying something else.

I would never dream of suggesting to the carrier of a P365, or Glock 19 that he should switch.

But I do strongly suggest that anyone intending to carry a handgun for defense try it out in realistic exercises before settling on one, rather than trying to best adapt to a gun for some reason. The same goes for holsters.

My EZ 9 is a tool, carried for self preservation. For the hobby, I would prefer my DTI Guardian (originally chosen for self defense), my 5" 686 +, or a single action--maybe even a Bisley, just for fun.

I have a Kimber K6s for backup, and for primary carry during one of those annoying episodes when a bone spur immobilizes my left arm.
 
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