Colt won!

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Red Cent, Jul 24, 2012.

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  1. clem

    clem Member

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    CACOLTGUY
    "Rest assured that some high ranking Marine Corp officer will be working for Colt shortly after retirement. Top level brass vying for post retirement defense contracting jobs are responsible for the majority of wasteful spending on pet programs and weapons. A $600 Ruger or Glock would do just as good a job and if a part ever did break you could throw the whole gun away and buy a new one for less money than this contract.

    Oh and I did serve in the Marine Corp and I own a Colt 1911 but I recognize fiscal irresponsibility as good as anyone. "



    Sort of like the M16 back in the 60s and during the Vietnam War.
     
  2. Ash

    Ash Member

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    Besides, what is the turnaround for a Glock when you send it in? Two weeks if you're lucky?

    You have a trained armorer on site with all the replacement parts he could possibly need and you have a day's turn around.

    Fiscal irresponsibility is allowing welfare EBT cards to buy booze and cigarettes.
     
  3. cyclopsshooter

    cyclopsshooter Member

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  4. 76shuvlinoff

    76shuvlinoff Member

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    Bravo for the Marines, the 1911 and for Colt!!!

    For those so concerned about tax dollar waste please check the crap that goes on in you closest inner city.
     
  5. royaluno

    royaluno Member

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    I have done alot of construction for the military bases in NC. Contractors basically Double the price Because of all the red tape (anal) that slows the job down and more paper work in the office. It has nothing to do with gauging. Contracts are bid on.
     
  6. DeathByCactus

    DeathByCactus Member

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    That's a lot of money for one pistol. Why couldn't they get a cheaper model. Around $1k or so.
     
  7. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    Brent, manager of the Colt Custom Shop has assured folks on another forum (I read his post) that the per unit price is substantially less than $1875. Marines fielding these pistols don't have the luxury of demanding a cease-fire while waiting on warranty repair or drawing their third Ruger in hopes it isn't on the recall list. I must wonder how many of our membership hold the same attitude toward their own defensive pistols.
     
  8. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    What is a lot of money for one pistol? the contract price includes more than pistols.
     
  9. michaelbsc

    michaelbsc Member

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    As someone said earlier, the government spends so much money making sure it doesn't get screwed it would be cheaper if they just said to hell with it and accepted the occasional crook.

    String up the ones you catch as examples and the majority of the rest would be satisfied to do fair business just like they do with the local butcher and barber shop.
     
  10. cacoltguy

    cacoltguy Member

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    "So why do the FBI SWAT, FBI Hostage Rescue Team, and the LAPD SWAT use high-grade 1911s? Do you really know exactly what is needed to "do the job?""

    They use high end 1911's because some chief, CO or man in charge has a fetish for them. Why do SEALS use Sigs? I'm a fan of the 1911 (own two of them) but any halfway decent modern handgun is capable of being as durable and tough as a 1911 and possibly more so depending on the brand and models compared. I'm sure this Colt will be high quality and more than capable but I'm pretty darn sure so many off the shelf pistols for a lot less money could equal it. It's a handgun for crying out loud. If it's reliable, has a light rail for special ops and fires a man stopping round what other requirements are there? By the way whats with this "logistics and support" added into the cost. I thought Colt's had a lifetime warranty and how much do replacement springs really cost?
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2012
  11. wlewisiii

    wlewisiii Member

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    What a waste of taxpayer money. Issue them M9's & teach them how to shoot them.
     
  12. mortablunt

    mortablunt Member

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    Wow, at that price why not give everyone a Desert Eagle? I kid. They're getting a great deal, seeing as the price is for a limited production run and also covers the logistics.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
  13. Auto426

    Auto426 Member

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    And I assume you know that for a fact and have evidence to back that up?
     
  14. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    8 pages! Well, maybe some have a Sig fetish. Maybe some have a Glock fetish. Maybe some are cheapskates, some spend lavishly and some consider the mission first regardless of cost. Guesses are not truths.

    Thus far Colt, the 1911, the Marines, the Government and forum members have been maligned with speculation, accusation and outright nonsense. In the spirit of THR I think this one needs an ending soon.
     
  15. cyclopsshooter

    cyclopsshooter Member

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    motion seconded
     
  16. danez71

    danez71 Member

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    Kleanbore,

    After 8 pages of you saying forty-eleven times that the contract includes parts and logistics (and probably armory training) and therefore the unit cost is NOT $1875 ea.

    .... for old times sake.....


    Could you please say it again?

    I think some must have not seen you say it the other forty-eleven times. :scrutiny:;)
     
  17. 76shuvlinoff

    76shuvlinoff Member

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    It sure as hell didn't sink in.....
     
  18. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Snide contention, that.

    It is most assuredly because they evaluated the alternatives and made their choices based on the results.

    Their choice. Their 9 MM SIG pistol is not an off-the-shalf model, nor is it the same as the DoD substitute standard M11 version. They also have the MK23 Mod O .45 cal SOCOM offensive handgun. Try pricing that.

    Among those publicly listed:
    • Compatibility with firearms on which each MARSOC and MEU(SOC) Force Recon Marine has been trained--up to 15,000 rounds each
    • Trigger pull
    • Safety system

    They decided upon the requirements, and their Operational Requirements document, which was based on their Mission needs Statement, led to the specifications, which were made public in 2010.

    Did you question them then?

    Do not confuse a limited warranty of whatever duration with maintenance and the replacement of parts that have exceeded their design life and worn out or failed though use and that were not defective in terms of materials or workmanship. Different animal.
     
  19. Squeaky Wheel

    Squeaky Wheel Member

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    Man, what a bunch of greedy, selfish, money-grabbers in MARSOC! I'm with all of the other irate taxpayers on this one. But I'd take it a step further -- we should have some PFCs drive around and find the best deals at pawn shops. Heck, it's just a handgun. If it goes bang every time, we could maybe find some Ravens or Charter Arms for under $100.00 each. Think of the huge cost savings! With the amount of money saved, just think what HUD or the Welfare Dept could buy!
     
  20. michaelbsc

    michaelbsc Member

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    For that matter we could do like the commies used to do. Round up the poor blokes living in the projects (instead of fielding a professional force), feed them just enough to keep them alive, and shove them onto the front line as fodder.

    Send mama a beautiful certified letter from glorious leader about sonny's brave sacrifice when he doesn't come home so she'll feel better.

    Mosins can still be found by the crate if you look around.
     
  21. Trent

    Trent Member

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    For those complaining about the cost - please consider how utterly insignificant some PISTOLS are in the overall scheme of things.

    As far as bankrupting this country.. get real. TWO things, and two things ONLY, has bankrupted this country. (And wait! It's NOT social security or medicare).

    "According to a retrospective Brookings Institute study published in 1998 by the Nuclear Weapons Cost Study Committee (formed in 1993 by the W. Alton Jones Foundation), the total expenditures for U.S. nuclear weapons from 1940 to 1998 was $5.5 trillion in 1996 Dollars.[132] The total public debt at the end of fiscal year 1998 was $5,478,189,000,000 in 1998 Dollars[133] or $5.3 trillion in 1996 Dollars. The entire public debt in 1998 was therefore attributable to the research, development, and deployment of U.S. nuclear weapons and nuclear weapons-related programs during the Cold War.[132][134][135]"

    Reiterate once again for the hard of hearing.

    The entire public debt in 1998 was therefore attributable to the research, development, and deployment of U.S. nuclear weapons and nuclear weapons-related programs during the Cold War.

    Now please keep this discussion on the topic of Pistols, and not what you think may or may not bankrupt this country.

    (I'll leave the second reason for our financial troubles alone, obviously doesn't pertain as it's not defense related)

    Seriously folks, thinking that 1911's are going to bankrupt this country's financial system and using such a concept in an argument only shows how ill-thought your grounds for such an argument are.

    I have seen modern 1911's. I have used high quality modern 1911's. They are very fast, very accurate, and I have no doubt they will get the job done.

    I have personally fixed or repaired a number of handguns during my period as an FFL and frequent sport shooter. All models of guns (including Glocks), can and will fail with a certain regularity when they are shot and used frequently. Unless you can cite failure rates of components which are not anecdotal - something I do NOT believe is public knowledge from ANY gun company - there's no statistical or scientific basis (other than internet heresay) for you do back your claim off of.

    Essentially..

    IF 1911's WERE PRONE TO PROBLEMS AND HAD RELIABILITY OR OTHER ISSUES WHY WOULD MARSOC MAKE THE BID SPECIFICALLY FOR 1911'S AND WHY WOULD THEY CONTINUE USING THEM *LONG* AFTER THE M9 WAS INTRODUCED?

    No lobbyist or corporate sponsor or "paranoid-conspiracy-retirement plan for the man behind the desk" would keep them using 1911's over any other firearm.

    Man I just don't understand this. I own *1* 1911 out of 20-some handguns, rarely even take it out of the box - I'm not especially fond of or fervent of 1911's - but this entire conversation just .. baffles me.

    Just be happy that they're back to using .45's (on the books) and move on.

    You know. It's a real man's cartridge. There's something to THAT, at the very least.
     
  22. easyg

    easyg Member

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    I think this is a waste of the taxpayer's money.

    A large, heavy, low capacity, .45 is not what any fighting man needs.
     
  23. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    You are entitled to your opinion, and you may be right. It may also be an excellent investment. None of us are in a position to know.

    Fortunately, the total value of this IDIQ contract pales in comparison to most everything else that we spend money on for MARSOC--personnel costs, sniper rifles, ground vehicles, stinger missiles, training, fuel, watercraft, flight hours in Air Force MH-47 and MH-53J rotorcraft and CV-22 tilt-rotor aircraft--you name it.

    These fighting men have been using hand-built 1911s quite successfully for some time, and when it comes to deciding what they need, their credibility trumps that of the rest of us.
     
  24. michaelbsc

    michaelbsc Member

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    It's an IDIQ instead of a fixed delivery quantity?

    OK. That changes things a little. Now you can guarantee that it isn't overpriced. Every penny in it is justified. That's how IDIQ works.

    It may not be justified "out in the open" so you and I can look at it, but it is looked at by enough eyes that there isn't anything under the table. And there are enough guys not willing to go to federal prison to keep it clean.

    And the thing about an indefinite delivery indefinite quantity contract is that if they don't take delivery, then they don't get a bill. And Colt won't get the money.

    Colt probably has a setup cost that specified $X to support the contract in case the government bought 3, or 3000 units. They'll probably recover that regardless.

    Then there's only justifiable costs for every unit delivered. IDIQ is not a get rich scheme for manufacturers. If the price seems high it's because the government is demanding a whole bunch of "other" stuff as part of the deliverables.

    Like someone said, you can't send it back for warranty from the jungle and expect the enemy to wait two weeks for customs to clear.
     
  25. Auto426

    Auto426 Member

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    :rolleyes:
     
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