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Columbus Police Choose New Pistol

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by 308win, Feb 4, 2007.

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  1. 308win

    308win Member

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    Follow up article on Columbus PD's new sidearm. Go to Metro Section.




    COLUMBUS POLICE


    New pistol
    increases
    firepower



    By Theodore Decker THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH




    For the first time in more than 15 years, Columbus police are carrying new handguns and more bullets.
    They began switching late last summer. Each of the 1,876 officers in Columbus should have a .40-caliber Smith & Wesson Military & Police model pistol by the end of March, the division says.
    Police began looking for a new gun after Smith & Wesson stopped making the .45-caliber model used by almost all Columbus officers since 1990, said Sgt. Kevin Corcoran, a firearms instructor and division spokesman.
    The division stuck with Smith & Wesson after the Springfield, Mass., gun manufacturer came up with the M &P line of handguns geared toward the military and police. The line was introduced last year.
    When the police started shopping for a new gun, one feature topped officers’ wish lists — more rounds to combat the greater firepower they were encountering on the streets.
    The old handgun held nine rounds — eight in the magazine and one in the chamber. The new gun holds 15 in the magazine and one in the chamber. With two backup magazines, officers now carry 46 rounds, 21 more than they had with the .45-caliber.
    "It’s just so much nicer to have the extra capacity," said Jim Gilbert, president of the Fraternal Order of Police Capital City Lodge No. 9. "We’d rather have it and not need it."
    Corcoran recalled a 2004 shooting in which a man fired about 60 rounds at officers from an AK-47 assault rifle as he was being chased through the North Side.
    "The L.A. bank robbery shootout was a prime example," he said, referring to a 1997 California gunbattle in which police were so outgunned that they commandeered weapons from a nearby gun store. "This will keep the officers in the fight for a little bit longer."
    The deal is a trade-in that will cost the city $1. It had to charge something to be able to draw up a contract that the City Council could approve. But Smith & Wesson is giving the city new guns in exchange for the old ones, Corcoran said.
    Police said the .40-caliber strikes a balance between speed and stopping power.
    They had some problems with the .45 not penetrating heavy clothing. Once, a suspect’s wallet stopped a police bullet. Police didn’t want to go to a 9 mm, Corcoran said, because those bullets tend to pass through a person without stopping them.
    "We weren’t looking at tearing somebody up," he said. "We were looking at stopping somebody’s actions with the least amount of rounds possible."
    The old gun had a stiffer trigger pull that got easier after the first shot. The new gun’s is the same every time. The old gun had one grip. The new one has three grips for different hand sizes.
    "It’s a very consistent gun," Corcoran said. "The balance of the gun is a lot better. It feels more like an extension of your arm. Once you get it in your hand, it’s there."
    Four accidental discharges of new guns have prompted reminders to officers to keep their fingers off the trigger and store the guns in approved holsters. In December, a sergeant who had the gun tucked in his waistband without a holster fired the weapon inside headquarters. He wasn’t hurt.
    During testing, police dropped the guns, banged on them, even put 2,500 rounds through one in 40 minutes.
    "The gun got very hot, but it still functioned appropriately," Corcoran said. "This gun will not fire unless you pull the trigger."
    Gilbert said the union would have liked two full days of training with the new gun instead of one, but Corcoran called the introductory eight hours of training adequate. Officers routinely must qualify with their guns, and the division offers additional training for officers who’d like to improve their shooting on their own time, he said.
    Ron Barker, a division instructor and gunsmith, said Smith & Wesson took the division’s feedback during testing and improved the gun. The company accounts for about 10 percent of sales to police departments, behind Glock’s 65 percent.
    The M &P demands good shooting and rewards it, Barker said.
    "It’s easy to shoot, but because it has a very fast bullet, it’s not very forgiving."
    "The .45 was a little bigger, was a little bit heavier," Gilbert said. "I’m very happy with the weapon. It’s a good weapon."
    Information from the Associated Press was included in this story.
    [email protected]
     
  2. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    Four ADS in a few months? They need to take the NRA basic pistol class to be reminded not to touch the trigger until they are ready to shoot.
     
  3. The Rifleman

    The Rifleman member

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    In Pennsylvania the State Police all use a Model 92 Beretta 9 mm..
    http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg07-e.htm

    Shoot to kill the dirty little buggers and they won't fire back at you no more.

    Wound them and all you do is make another repeat criminal, when the judge lets them go after they only get 6 months to a year for commiting a felony.
     
  4. hksw

    hksw Member

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    Holy JMosesB. A paper using proper terminology.


    Sounds like SW is selling at a great loss to gain market share.
     
  5. MartinBrody

    MartinBrody Member

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    Wasn't the LAPD using hi-cap Berettas when that happened???

    I absolutely think police should have hi-caps, but could we leave out the spin that civilians are too well armed.
     
  6. shooter503

    shooter503 Member

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    This is hilarious.



    "
     
  7. jerkyman45

    jerkyman45 Member

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    A .45 ACP not penetrating heavy clothing or a wallet? That's rather peculiar.
     
  8. loud-mouth shnook

    loud-mouth shnook Member

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    I actually spoke with ...

    ...the officer who said that his was the first AD w/ the new pistol.

    Interesting. As I recall:
    He was peering into an open window into a dark room while investigating a burglary-in-progress call. The window had a venetian blind and he had to manipulate the cord as quietly as possible to open the blind slightly, in order to see better into the house. Needless to say, his weapon was drawn, as was his partner's behind him.

    This particular officer had spent a decade+ in the military before joining CPD (15 years as a cop) so he'd had extensive prior firearms experience and the Four Rules are reflexive for him. He said that as he was withdrawing from the window, he heard a shot. He immediately thought it was his partner behind him that fired. Upon inquiry to his partner, whom replied to the negative, the first officer looked and noticed that the pull from the cord to the venetian blind had miraculously (and unfortunately) gotten in between the trigger and guard and when he backed away from the darkened window, the pressure was sufficient to discharge the weapon.

    This demonstrates the albeit remote possibility of an AD to be "just one of those things" and I'm neither trying to defend nor condemn the policeman. The facts are the facts. My own two cents, if it's worth that, is that he did do what anyone would or could have done under those circumstances. It certainly heightened MY awareness to the possibility of "just one of those things" and it should for the rest of us as well IMHO (no preachiness intended.)

    The trigger pull on the CPD pistols are set to under 5 lbs. currently and it appears that measures are being looked at to stiffen them up a bit. The officer said, himself, that the long, heavier trigger pull of the DA previous issue weapon had saved a couple of suspects from being shot under circumstances where they took just a couple of split seconds longer to comply. There's obviously a learning curve for the subconscious to adapt its training to the new trigger pull and safety configuration.

    Bear in mind, this happened to a man who KNOWS VERY WELL HOW TO SHOOT.
    What about the new recruits who aren't quite as experienced? Time will tell.
     
  9. FW

    FW Member

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    If this is the reason to get new pistols, why not just get their own Kalishnikov type rifles? They could actually cost less than the pistols in some cases!

    Best of all, all they would have to do is dress up a police officer like a prisoner, send him to the local gun show, and buy the whole departmen a truckload of AK"assualt rifles" - "no questions asked"!!! And they wouldn't have to qualify since all they would have to do is "spray fire from the hip".

    Darwin in action.

    21st century technology? See about quote. Perhaps the sergeant was trying for a low cost gender changing operation.

    Perhaps they could make the pistol even "safer". How about requiring the sergeant to carry it with a trigger lock. Then it can't fire even if the trigger is pulled! Or maybe get him a "smart gun", that won't fire even if the trigger is pulled. Of course we can't have a police officer carrying around gun smarter than he is.

    ??????

    A little bit of wisdom found in all this foolishness.
     
  10. Kilroy

    Kilroy Member

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    Lip service. Officers will go train when they are paid to do so. Doing things on your own time is not productive for most. Will Workman's Comp apply for any "on their own time" training?

    A clever advertising move by S&W. That sort of deal will become less and less common as time goes on.

    Not the only agency to be the test bed to finish developing a pistol.
     
  11. Fly320s

    Fly320s Member

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    I'd bet that S&W will make their money on the sale of the used guns. Probably not as much as the new guns would bring in, but that what the "maintenance" portion of the contract is for.
     
  12. grimjaw

    grimjaw Member

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    Didn't Columbus pass its own "assault" weapons ban? How then can they justify statements like 'facing greater firepower on the streets?'

    If they expect to run into situations on a regular basis like the LA bank robbery mentioned, they need to toss the handguns and pick up some rifles.

    The article sounds like a S&W advertisement.

    jm
     
  13. RevolvingCylinder

    RevolvingCylinder Member

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    The issues they had would only be worsened with a higher magazine capacity. They're belief that a high-capacity pistol is some magic weapon will not "keep them in the fight longer" but rather put them out of the fight, permanently.
     
  14. Wayne D

    Wayne D Member

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    A .45 stopped by a wallet :confused: I bet there's more to that story, like maybe the car door or wall stud that it went through first.
     
  15. Kilroy

    Kilroy Member

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    No, they won't. The metal frame guns from S&W have a very low used wholesale allowance and pricing in LE markets. As inexpensive as the M&P is to produce, that is not the point of this transaction.

    It is not uncommon to stir up sales by making a sweetheart deal to an existing S&W agency. Makes for good advertising and makes other agencies curious. The smart ones will get on the bandwagon soonest, before S&W begins to expect a profit on their sales/trades.
     
  16. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Member

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    4 accidental discharges in that short a time? Columbus, TX has such a small police force I wouldn't have believed it. :)
     
  17. LeafsFan

    LeafsFan Member

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    Didn't Columbus pass its own "assault" weapons ban? How then can they justify statements like 'facing greater firepower on the streets?'

    Hey, the "assault" weapons are all still out there on the streets in the hands of criminals just like they always were... the ban just ensured that the city's law-abiding citizens can't have any of their own. :rolleyes:
     
  18. Autolycus

    Autolycus Member

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    Well if that is what they need good for them. It will hopefully give Glock some competition. And then the price of Glock will drop....:D
     
  19. doubleg

    doubleg Member

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    :rolleyes: Could go with out the anti (Assault rifle) sentance. Also .45 goes through bones and sheet metal but not clothing. What are they talking about? Kevlar.:rolleyes:
     
  20. ArfinGreebly

    ArfinGreebly Moderator Emeritus

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    When Outgunned

    When outgunned by a rifle fired by a man wearing body armor, one should have more pistol rounds available.

    Definitely little lapses in logic in this writeup.
     
  21. Todesengel

    Todesengel Member

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    wow, what has the police become??? :confused:

    Every police officer should HAVE TO go for 1 week to Thunder ranch or Gunsite. They also should have IQ requirements.
     
  22. Atticus

    Atticus Member

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    Being able to claim that major LE and/or military organizations trust your weapon is a very strong marketing tool. S&W will make their money selling these to me and you. I've been to one gun show and three local gunshops iin the past month...and on each occassion, I heard the "The Columbus police just switched to this pistol" sales pitch. They do appear to be nice pistols, and I wouldn't mind owning one.
    Overall, I think the article is pretty decent, compared to what you typically see in the press. Now, I'd like to see the Dispatch recant all the anti-CCW rhetoric they spewed a few years ago, and admit they were not only wrong, but ignored the available facts, and even lied their asses off to stop the law from passing. There have been ho "wild west" shootouts.
     
  23. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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    Here's an idea... get an AK-47-- heck they can get a full-auto one, because they're LE. Then you'll be evenly matched.
     
  24. Teufelhunden

    Teufelhunden Member

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    Such a thought, while commendable, is never going to happen. The Sheriff has on-going fights with the county commissioners about funding for new vehicles, deputies, facilities and gear. Unless a county commission is run by former peace officers, you'll never see advanced training like Gunsite or Thunder Ranch offered as part of the basic training for the line troops. It all goes back to the bottom line of money. Specialized divisions like SWAT might get to go, but as far as the bean-counters are concerned, the basic 1 week course in the academy will suffice.

    -Teuf
     
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