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Coming home to an intruder...

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by Dibbs, Aug 15, 2020.

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  1. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

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    Dibbs, how many folks don't have modern, monitored alarms nowadays? Do you? Mine goes off like the Wrath of God, launching the Minute Man missiles and bringing the USS Missouri to general quarters.
     
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  2. whughett

    whughett Member

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    Shortly after that encounter I spoke of I installed a Simpli Safe alarm system. $450, self installed and $24.95 a month and police dispatch. Not just for intruders the system has low heat and water intrusion devices, power failure and text notification of any alert. . Debating the worth of cameras.
     
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  3. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    alarm system + large dogs inside home = not coming unknowingly into home with intruder hiding inside.
     
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  4. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    In that case I would get a security system. They are getting quite reasonable in price and you can set them up with WiFi to your smart phone and be your own monitoring service if you don't want to pay for one.

    And the point I'm trying to make is that you should look to add the icing. You aren't really safe until you are inside your home. It doesn't take a huge effort to up your situational awareness and what seems like an added chore simply becomes automatic after a while. Everyone needs a place where they can go to Condition White and relax. For most of us that's our home. But we can't really relax until we are safely inside our home. Maybe I am more cautious then the average person. I live in the same place I did when I was working in LE. I live in a rural county with a small population and unfortunately the nature of LE work can make you a target to a lot of people. I've developed habits to keep myself and my family as safe as possible over the years.

    If you aren't willing to invest in a security system, you can place something in front of known entry points that an intruder would have to move when they entered. Something that you would notice being out of place when you came in. The $20 bill by the door is one idea.

    Are you suggesting that you draw before you enter your house and methodically clear it every day when you get home? That's going to put some really thick icing on your stress cake. I have to recommend that if you come home and find a sign that your house has been breached, get out and call the police. If you encounter the intruder immediately upon entry backing out and giving the intruder an escape route is the safest course of action. I know that this is a gun forum and as legally armed citizens we have the right to defend our homes. But think about the possible consequences of confronting the intruder for a minute. Confronting the intruder might go just like it does on TV and he complies with your commands and everything comes out great. Or, it starts a fight that you might or might not prevail in and if you do shoot the intruder it's going to be very messy even in castle doctrine states.
     
  5. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Dibbs, without knowing your exact situation, I would assess your risk level as highest as you are exiting your car, and still worth considering until you have entered and secured the door behind you to prevent tailgating.

    Stay alert for anyone who may have followed you home. Look for any strange cars in the area. Be watchful as you head toward and through the door.

    Should anyone have entered during your absence, the failure of your dog to greet you should tell you to back out immediately.

    Do not call 911 from your driveway--drive away first.
     
  6. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    Waiting outside for the police is obviously the correct course of action. But, especially if you are armed, there's a danger that the police might take you for the intruder. You have to be careful to identify yourself to the dispatcher so that this mixup doesn't take place. Certainly don't have gun in hand when the police arrive.
     
  7. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    There were a few times when I was responding to a report of break in where I knew the owner was onsite and armed that I lit up the light bar coming down the driveway so the armed owner knew it was the police arriving and not accomplices of the intruder he was looking for or holding.
     
  8. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

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    If you read the interactions between dispatchers and police, telling them you are armed and outside might be risky. The officer might just get a message that there is an armed person outside the house. How are they to tell it is you. Descriptions can be garbled.

    Jeff, what's your view of telling the dispatcher you are armed as compared to having the gun concealed? You can inform the officer when she or he arrives.
     
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  9. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    I would always tell the dispatcher I was armed and give them a complete description of myself including what I was wearing. I would not have a visible firearm when they arrived. I actually did that once when I lived out by the lake. I held 4 people who were breaking into my neighbor's house (He lived at the end of my driveway). Even though my wife gave the dispatcher my name and what department I worked for and even though my wife and the dispatcher knew each other personally and even though I had worked with the deputy who responded and he would know me by sight, I still put my weapon out of sight when he pulled up.

    I always preferred to know if the homeowner was onsite and if he was armed. That information changed the way I would respond to the call like in the example I gave of turning on the light bar for a few seconds coming up the drive so the homeowner knew it was "friendlies" and not bad guys arriving. You have to remember I worked in a rural area and encountering an armed homeowner, even if the intruder/burglar was long gone was a common thing. It might be different in an urban area.
     
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  10. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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    If you truly believe this, I'd highly recommend you retain an attorney and the FIRST thing you do is have him go over the laws about this with you.

    Because if you actually act the way you posit in your posting, you'll very likely find yourself in a new castle which has bars on the windows and door locks you don't have keys for.

    Bravado doesn't count for squat in court. Please don't do this.
     
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  11. Ernie Bass

    Ernie Bass Member

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    I have preached on this subject of coming home and an intruder already in the home. Why I have a alarm system throughout the house. And this is more frequent than many people realize. Most break in's happen during the day. And to walk in with a potential death threat inside is utterly insane and unnecessary. A person's goal is to always avoid a shooting or a killing. A person already in YOUR house would now feel trapped and would be extremely dangerous. Just get a alarm system.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
  12. Dibbs

    Dibbs Member

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    Alarms. Well, here's how my alarm systems work. Oldsmobile, went off at random, sometimes while entering the car, sometimes while the vehicle was running, it just started cycling.

    My brand new Silverado ? Went off on me dozens of times, BUT, when the truck was parked out back of the building, and somebody smashed the back window, and ripped off a few thousand dollars worth of stuff? Did the alarm go off THEN ? ANYBODY? OH, How about you, back there, in the red dress?

    Not for nothin' guys, but not everybody has a dog.

    And I am absolutely NOT suggesting that you draw a gun, and sweep your house, every time you get home. I'm just saying the possibility exists, that there COULD be an intruder, in your home, who has left no VISIBLE or OBVIOUS signs that they are there. No strange cars parked around, no open doors, broken glass, etc. My experiences with alarm systems, and electronics (nobody else has this problem, tho) is that they somewhat work, up to a point, but, IME, can be out to lunch, (in a mechanical sense)
    when you need them most.
    Hopefully, you're going to stumble upon this guy, before he owes you rent. But at the moment you walk in, and close the door, you don't know he's there.

    I'm also NOT advocating confronting or attacking the intruder.

    One of the things I keep hearing and reading about intruders, as a generality, is many times, apparently, they raid the kitchen, eat stuff from the fridge, etc. So, I imagine, there might be a 50/50 chance you might notice things are a little off, in the kitchen.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2020
  13. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Moderator Staff Member

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    If it's a concern (and it should be), take steps to make sure you know BEFORE going in that there's someone in there. Having a good quality alarm system that actually works is a common way people do this. I have one and a sign to post out front and in back. But the signs are for some other brand of system, not the one I actually have. If I don't hear the alarm start complaining when the door opens, I'm going to be back in my car and driving away while calling 911 as fast as I can.

    But if that's out of the question, there are low-tech solutions to let you know someone's been there since you have.

    If it's not enough of a concern to actually check to see if there's been a breech, and if security systems and dogs are not an option and you don't want to go through the house to verify there's no intruder, I don't know what you can really do. I guess you just hope that if you run across someone they are more surprised than you are and that gives you time to run, or draw, or beg for your life, or point them to the money/tv/valuables, or whatever.

    I've read back over this thread and I really can't tell where you're going with this. Here was your question:

    How do you handle coming home to the prospect of an intruder being inside your home, when you get there ?

    You've gotten lots of answers, but based on your responses, it seems clear that none of them are what you're looking for.

    Maybe you want to qualify/clarify your question a bit to focus it in a direction that's more in line with your situation, or maybe you have something in mind as a solution that you want to put forward for discussion?
     
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  14. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Does the thought cause you concern?
     
  15. JERRY

    JERRY Member

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    the alarm sounding off usually tips people of a problem....
     
  16. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    Anything is possible. I could walk into my house and find an intruder that I had no idea was in the house. I don't think it's very likely but it could happen.

    When and IF it happens I'll deal with it as well as I'm able. Assuming my wife isn't home my emphasis would be on getting out of the house.
     
  17. Dibbs

    Dibbs Member

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    Everybody keeps INSISTING, that when they get within 1/4 mile of their house, they will KNOW an intruder is inside. While I'd like to take a moment to laud the folks who are that super aware, AT ALL TIMES, and all have alarm systems which are 100% foolproof, alert dogs, and driveways WHICH CIRCLE THE ENTIRE HOUSE; and intruders, which have apparently signed contractual agreements, to make it obvious, that they have entered their abode, there are
    perhaps, a couple of us here(maybe not), you know, who are only average, ordinary, everyday superheroes.

    We get home, at the end of a long, hard day, we're tired, and trying to wind down, and we're not at our most alert, and the possibility may exist, in which, unlike our Exceptional Superhero brethren, we may walk into the house, and close that door, with an intruder inside our home. As
    UNBELIEVABLE as that sounds, to some of you, this has actually happened, and could, again.
    There was a guy, in NYC, IIRC, about ten years ago, who literally had a guy living inside the walls and crawl spaces of his home for a couple of weeks, before he ever discovered anything was wrong. HE also got caught, when the forthright occupant of the home noticed food missing from the kitchen, if memory serves.
     
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  18. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Come now.

    What is your assessment of that risk?

    What do you do about it?
     
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  19. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    What kind of answer are you looking for here? Do you want someone to tell the admittedly tired and not at the most alert you to go to condition red as soon as you unlock your door and carefully clear every room in your house without backup?

    Or maybe your waiting for someone to tell you that as soon you encounter an intruder you should draw and fire a nonstandard response into the trespasser.

    The solution is to take a few measures to harden your home like your “superhero brethren”, deadbolt locks, alarm systems, leaving a telltale of some type near the entrance so you will be able to tell your home has been breached.

    If you do encounter an intruder the best option is to back out although you might get run over by the intruder as he tries to escape you.

    Why don’t you tell us what kind of response you were hoping to receive here?
     
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  20. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Moderator Staff Member

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    It's a good thing that the person was only interested in a place to live and food, or things could have turned out very ugly. It's hard to imagine that there's any kind of constructive approach to dealing with this kind of a scenario once the person is already in the house and the homeowner is completely unaware of the situation.

    How would you prevent a person living in your home without your knowledge from doing you harm?
    Ok, so you're clearly concerned about this scenario, but so far you have rejected pretty much any suggestions for solving it the best way possible--avoiding it in the first place.

    The reason everyone keeps focusing on avoidance is precisely because there's no good solution for how to deal with a situation where you walk into a house with an intruder without realizing they're present.

    You're at a tremendous disadvantage in that situation. Put yourself in the intruder's place and think about what they will hear and see as you approach and enter your house. They will almost certainly be aware that you have entered (unless they're impaired or circumstances are unusual) so they will hold all the cards. At that point, I guess you just hope that they don't press their considerable advantage.
     
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  21. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    The possibility will exist that we will be the victim of an attempted violent crime.

    Right?

    That is one possibility. We should consider a few others:
    • A car that has been following us from where we have shopped or banked may pull into the driveway behind us, blocking our escape.
    • Someone hiding outside may attack as we open the car door.
    • Someone may wait until we are walking and attack us from behind.
    One can list others.

    That's the first step in risk management: identifying the risks.

    The next step is to assess the risks...to evaluate each one in terms of likelihood and severity.

    None of those risks is likely--most are very remote.

    But the potential consequences of occurrence are severe. A prudent person will consider them.

    I respectfully suggest that the three I have listed are much more likely to occur than tie possibility that we "may walk into the house, and close that door, with an intruder inside our home [at the time of our entry]".

    Most intruders who enter an unoccupied home leave as quickly as possible. That's how they stay in business.

    The question becomes, which risks should we worry about the most, and what should we do about them.
     
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  22. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    If I come home and there is an exterior entry point that has obviously been breeched and I don't hear my pitbull tearing someone's butt up Im drawing and going in.

    My wife and I don't dont kids, she (the dog) is it.

    In addition we live in a simple 1100sqf home in which I'm extremely familiar with. Not a whole lot to clear.

    Add to that we're pretty rural, the odds of anything happening in the first place almost make the hypothetical situation irrelevant.
     
  23. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    Is there someone to look after the dog after you're gone?
     
  24. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Moderator Staff Member

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    Interesting video. In part of it, you get to see multiple cops clearing a single very small room. In this case, the bad guys were unarmed and no one was hurt, but while you're watching the video, think about how the scenario would have played out had the bad guys been armed and determined to resist.

    It's pretty obvious that there would have been multiple opportunities for the bad guys to have killed at least one of the cops in spite of the room being very small and there being multiple people who were armed and trained clearing the room.
    Even if the event you're preparing for is unlikely, if you have decided to make a plan, the plan needs to be adequate for the circumstances it is designed to deal with. The unlikelihood of the event may make it reasonable to not prepare a plan at all, but if the decision is to have a plan in place, the plan needs to be reasonably likely to result in a satisfactory solution. For what it's worth, I'm not making any assessment of the viability of your plan, just pointing out that you're mixing the assessment and mitigation planning stages of risk assessment and that has the potential to really mess up a risk management problem.
     
  25. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Leave and call the cops from a place where you can observe and report.

    We used this scenario in Force on Force training and the smart folks left and called the cops. The only thing worth risking your life over is a loved one.
     
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