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Communism or Facism?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by ShaiVong, Apr 25, 2004.

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  1. ShaiVong

    ShaiVong Member

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    I've been thinking. This country is on the decline IMHO. Its still the best thing going, but in a few generations without any radical action, this country is going to be as crappy as Europe/Aussy in terms of gunrights. ATM I think its just sliding into the cesspit of socialism. People never, ever, ever, everevereverever learn. Ever. Well for any meaningfull length of time.


    You've got two extremes: Communism and Facism.

    In communism, nobody has rights. We all have to work for the "greater good". The government tells you where to work, how much you make, where to live and what to think. There is an upper crust elite that controls the populace and pretends to give the southside of a northbound rat. But they dont.

    In facism, there is one group or person who dictates the laws in a country. For the most part you have no voice and no rights. Theoretically this isnt a BAD thing, assuming the dude in charge is a stand-up kind of guy. He never is. There is an elite upper curst that does what they want and controls the populace. They dont pretend to care (atleast they're honest!).

    So if you had to choose between the two, which would it be? Countries tend to gravitate to one extreme or another in this world, with few moderates.

    Personally I would have to choose facism. I don't know why. Socialism makes me sick. I would rather be in Nazi Germany than Stalin's Russia. How many people did Hitler kill (not counting combat deaths)? 6 million Jews + others like Jehovahs Witnesses? Total of like 8-10 million? How many people did Stalin, Pol Pot, Chairman Mau kill?

    Religious facists on the other hand... I don't know about that. I cant say I would really like to live under some stinking muslem dictator. But then again I dont really like that part of the world at all.


    So which would you choose?
     
  2. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    Neither.

    Trust me on this. I will not tolerate either.
     
  3. fjolnirsson

    fjolnirsson Member

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    Like Jim, I choose neither. Every man has a line in the sand.
    A free man can only be pushed so far......
    I think there are a lot of gun owners out there who have nearly reached their lines.
    And I don't think fascism/communism are on the menu.
     
  4. HBK

    HBK member

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    Neither.
     
  5. Combat-wombat

    Combat-wombat Member

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    I will live under neither one. If I am forced to make a decision, I will choose death.
     
  6. Bunkster

    Bunkster Member

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  7. The_Antibubba

    The_Antibubba Member

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    The question is moot. I cannot choose to live under either system, since, historically, I and others like me have not been permitted to live.
     
  8. joab

    joab Member

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    Would you rather be beaten into submission with a baseball bat or a big ugly stick
     
  9. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    Note the ....

    In a few generations, we will be dead and the new generations, indoctrinated by public schools, liberal news and entertainment media and political correctness, will be running the country. Look at the social and political changes in the US since the 1950s and one can guesstimate how different this country will be in another 50 years.
     
  10. Tom C.

    Tom C. Member

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    IMO, the only difference between Communism and Fascism is who owns the means of production (i.e. industry). Communism insists in owning the means of production and putting party hacks in charge of production facilities. Fascism is content to let the original owners maintain control of the factories, and they, the Fascists, control the owners. The rest is eye wash.
    The only good thing about Communism and Fascism is that they seem to be perpetually at war, like Al Capone and Bugs Moran. Both are gangster regimes who don’t tolerate any individual freedom. Not a dimes worth of difference.
     
  11. longrifleman

    longrifleman Member

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    Communism and fascism aren't opposite ends of the political spectrum, they are close neighbors. The press and the govt. have run one of the most successful propaganda ops in history to confuse us into thinking they are opposites. The opposite end of the spectrum from both is anarchism: the absence of government.

    If you look beyond the window dressing here in the US we are well on the way to a fascist system ourselves. Before the flaming starts consider: IRS-EPA-EEOC-OSHA-HUD-DEA-BATFE-FBI-to control personal behavior. For property: Endangered Species Act-Clean Water Act:wetlands-emenint domain-zoning-and I'm only getting started.

    The system is being set up under the old boil the frog slowly method with way to much support by people who should know better. You can't be free unless you are willing to let other's be free. Even if you don't like what other's do with their freedom.

    The truly sad part is the majority of the people are perfectly content to live under some type of totalitarian govt. as long as they aren't too inconvienced.
     
  12. ThreadKiller

    ThreadKiller Member

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    Both are equally bad as they are both failed economic philosophies. Neither work because both substitute centralized government planning for individual creativity. Both give rise to totalitarian societies because such schemes cannot exist any other way.

    Give me the roller coaster ride of Capitalism any day.

    "Capitalism is the worst system yet devised.... except for all the others." -Sir Winston Churchill

    Tim
     
  13. T.Stahl

    T.Stahl Member

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    Communism or fascism? Where's the difference? They are both socialists who are after your liberties, rights, money - and life if you don't obey their orders.
    Put both of them in a sack and beat it with a bat, you'll always hit the right one.
     
  14. Chris Rhines

    Chris Rhines Member

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    Communism and Fascism are two words for the same thing.

    - Chris
     
  15. veloce851

    veloce851 Member

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    Simple

    Give me liberty or give me death.
     
  16. DMK

    DMK Member

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    You're right.

    The first group is known as the Democrats, the second group is known as the Republicans. :banghead: :cuss:
     
  17. 7.62FullMetalJacket

    7.62FullMetalJacket Member

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    Longrifleman has it about right. We are there, we just do not know it. We have been a slow-boiling frog for decades. The government already dictates much of how a business operates through regulation: EPA, OSHA, IRS, EEOC, etc.

    People are also regulated in how they live: low-flow toilets, useless pesticides, "energy-saving" appliances, zoning restrictions, CCRs, traffic control, emissions laws, carpooling, mandatory schooling, etc. There are many affronteries that "seem" voluntary but are not. There are many that "seemingly" have good intentions, but they are just another device for control.

    You work for nearly half the year to pay for the "public good." Businesses must hire consultants, accountants, risk managers, voo-doo clerics, etc. to divine the current intent of laws and how to comply.

    As L. Neil Smith says, looking through thr prism of gun control you can see where a politician stands. You can also look through the prism of gun control and measure the status of freedom.

    We don't even need to go into judicial activism where the last backstop for tyranny is located. The are compliant players.
     
  18. ShaiVong

    ShaiVong Member

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    Yeah thats kind of my underlying point: They are really the same thing to those who toil under the government. Socialism rears under the banner of 'for the people/children'. Facism is basically 'for the nation' or 'for the rulers'. Either way your up poopy creek.

    But what was said about the frog in boiling water is extremely apt. Thats how any kind of insanity congeals in government. Slowly over time the status quo changes progressivly until such horrors arent unthinkable anymore.

    You might die before you would submit to either regime, but would your children (assuming you dont have any yet or they're infants)? Would your grandchildren? Great-grandchildren?

    Social pressues and constant propiganda have a definate effect on the populace. Thats one of the reasons why this country does not elect officials on the popular vote alone: People are EASY to control. And the larger the group of people, they easier it is.

    And you cant count on training your children either. How often does a kid decide to go 180 degrees from where they're parent tries to guide them? In this society kids are ingraned from birth to rebel against they're parents. They think its expected of them. Neither of my parents are gun owners, or really gun friendly. My mom is nearly a bleeding heart, though when it comes right down to it i get most of my independence from her.

    In any case, i have to go before i bore everyone.
     
  19. cloudkiller

    cloudkiller Member

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    Sources of legitimacy

    On paper Communism reads better, and one could make a decent case that was was practiced as Communism in the 20th century by many of the big dictators was in fact more Fascist than anything else. Ultimately the distinction between the two is meaningless. Sadly the legacy of death brought on by Communism is one of the least discussed facts of the 20th centuries. A tragedy that the terror of the system is so overlooked by many.

    In practice they are very similar. They differ in their source of legitimacy. Communism will talk about the good of "the people" facism more about the good of "the state". How people arrive at either is also rather interesting.

    The United States, IMO, is more ripe for Facism. We have a lot of xenophobes/bigots who love to come up with conspiracy theories about polluting outsiders. We have a strong religious identity that is already tied to our national identity, and could easily be manipulated. We have a huge cultural chasm that could be exploited. We have an overdeveloped sense of nationhood and manifest/divine destiny that facist proponents could tap into. We also have a long history of fighting communism that is still fairly fresh, as our fight against Facism fades in the minds of younger generations. While I think the accelerating concentration of power into the hands of the government, and increasing concentration of wealth into the hands of a few people would seem ripe for class-struggle, I suspect that cultural/ethnic/nationalist scapegoating rather than social class scapegoating will become the more dominant viewpoint, at least among "middle americans"
     
  20. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    One more reason to carry a gun.
     
  21. atek3

    atek3 Member

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    he busted out class struggle
    :D

    atek3
     
  22. joab

    joab Member

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    You got it.
    And that sentiment got us the 2nd amendment
     
  23. Soap

    Soap Member

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    Exactly.
     
  24. labgrade

    labgrade Member In Memoriam

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    "Like Jim, I choose neither. Every man has a line in the sand."

    Uhm, I've heard it refered to as a range-marker .....
     
  25. Treylis

    Treylis Member

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    Neither, myself.

    Laissez-faire capitalism is the only way to go.
     
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