Compact Distance?

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by tws3b2, Aug 10, 2022.

  1. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    This is basically what my combative pistol instructor said.
    If you hit every shot dead center of an 8.5x11 sheet you need to shoot faster. If you miss the paper,shoot slower and more deliberate.
     
  2. tws3b2

    tws3b2 Member

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    WoW. After reading all that. Well , To tell the truth I didn't really read all that. After the first paragraph I got tired and took a nap.
    But to answer your first question. I really don't think I'm going to need to shoot anybody at over 21 feet.
    Maybe tomorrow. After another nap I'll read the rest.
     
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  3. jrmiddleton425

    jrmiddleton425 Member

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    *Is* it unnecessary BS, though?

    If someone starts running at you, they can cover 7 yards in 1.5 seconds. If it takes you 3 seconds to make a shoot/no-shoot decision, draw, and double tap, the bad guy just ran 14 or 15 yards.

    Therefore if you expect your maximum shot to be 7 yards, your "engagement space" is actually 21 yards.

    Practicing at 25 yards isn't BS. It's common sense based on real-world data.
     
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  4. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    Why don't you think that? Do you know how fast the typical 15-25 YO male (the age demographic for most criminals) can cover 21 feet? Can you draw your weapon and put him down in under 1.5 seconds? That doesn't just mean get the gun out and make noise that fast. It means getting it out and putting bullets in places that will disable a fit, determined human in 2 seconds or less. Do you know how hard it is to do that?
     
  5. wcwhitey

    wcwhitey Member

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    You are doing fine! Keep practicing what your doing. Get comfortable with your gun to the point it feels natural. Just one suggestion, vary the range from contact, the 7 yards you mentioned to out a bit farther. Get used to what targets looks like at those distances, no tunnel vision. You are ahead of the game compared to some shooters I see.
     
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  6. sgt127

    sgt127 Member

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    I’m weird for accuracy.

    it wasn't that long ago I posted a 100 yard target and mentioned shooting an active shooter across the food court. At a mall. And, was roundly criticized by some.

    I generally shoot at 7 yards up to 50 yards at a 3/4 size IDPA steel target. As long as I hear a clang, I’m good.

    And now. It happened. A mall shooter at 40 yards.

    Depending on your mindset. You may, or may not, have to feel comfortable taking a 50 yard shot. Most people, understandably, just want to get out of the situation and or stop the immediate threat.

    Put up an IDPA target at 7-10 yards. Shoot as fast as comfortable. If the rounds are in the B ring, you’re probably fine.

    If you miss the target completely. Slow down. Hitting someone you don’t need to shoot is counterproductive.

    I’m certain Indiana mall shorter did not score all those hits at 40 yards. He hit him. Dropped him and moved in to plant him in the ground.

    That skinny little turd was not standing there soaking up rounds. And, I’m OK with that.

    Do what you can do, reliably, and carry on.

    Having watched other people shoot. You are way ahead of the game.
     
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  7. tws3b2

    tws3b2 Member

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    I think I'm just going to continue on with the way I'm going. And, I think I'm at the point where I can carry my gun with confidence that I can handle myself in most - likely situations. Another couple hundred rounds at 7yds and I will see where I can go from there.
    Thanks Guys
     
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  8. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    Most people who carry never have to use their weapon, so you're probably right.
     
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  9. marsofold

    marsofold Member

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    I can keep my 1911 shots on a paper plate at 10 yards slow firing. I can't see much need for additional distance. Training to shoot the same faster seems worthwhile to me.
     
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  10. murf

    murf Member

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    that is half the battle!

    how much do you dry-fire? at what do you aim (whole target, centered circle, etc.)?

    suggest you aim at a "belly button" at the center of your target. the goal is to automatically aim this way every time you "shoot" your gun.

    dry-fire ten minutes every day will help tremendously. [no ammo in the area, please].

    luck,

    murf
     
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  11. sgt127

    sgt127 Member

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    Dry fire is fantastic.

    Might I suggest Sternum instead of belly button. Under stress, or while flinch, folks have a tendency to shoot low anyway. The sternum, absolutely center of the target, may still get someone that belly button shot.
    :)
     
  12. murf

    murf Member

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    actually, i am trying to get the op to shoot at a small round target (aim small, hit small). if the op gets that idea down pat, the bellybutton can be placed anywhere, even in the center of a sternum.

    murf
     
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  13. bdickens

    bdickens Member

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    You don't get out much, do you?
     
  14. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    The distance is well within the range of the most plausible risks.

    The paper plate is fine.

    The issue is "slow firing". Consider the potential need to achieve three or four hits to damage aa key internal body part, and consider that a charging assailant is likely to move five meters in one second.

    Work on rapidity of fire.
     
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  15. jar
    • Contributing Member

    jar Contributing Member

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    Work on control of rapid fire.
     
  16. Archie

    Archie Member

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    So am I.

    I agree the typical range for self-defense engagements is 5 to 7 yards. Having said that, NOTHING in my life has been 'typical'. Why should it straighten up now?
    The episode of the Indiana hero was out of the 'typical'. But he did it anyway. Does anyone - barring the villain and possibly the villain's Mother (it is her job) - object to this victory?
    According to the reports, the distance in question was 40 yards. Assuming the villain was moving perpendicular to the hero, that presents a target about half of the current "squared off cardboard" silhouette target. All things considered, not a tiny target, but not huge, either.

    Keeping all one's shots on a 8.5x11 inch paper is sufficient for average, typical self defense. However, one should not be satisfied (permanently) with that. Shooting at 50 or 100 yards and being able to hit reliably will increase one's legitimate confidence and ability at closer ranges.
     
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  17. SimonRL

    SimonRL Member

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    With a compact?
     
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  18. SimonRL

    SimonRL Member

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    You got the whole gamut of responses here. Next time try asking an easier question like Is it ok to drop the slide on an empty 1911 or what’s better for self defense 9mm or 45.acp?

    The most simple thing you can do to improve your accuracy is use a slightly smaller target. Buy a roll of 4in splatterburst targets. You can stick them on a regular target or even a piece of 8.5x11 sheet of paper. The smaller target will help you focus and I guarantee that within no time using a 6 in target will feel like cheating.
     
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  19. trackskippy

    trackskippy Member

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    I think you have to decide whether you want to shoot bullseye, and tight little groups at your leisure, or if you want more realistic, practical combat accuracy shot under a bit of pressure.

    At the distances the OP is talking here, you should be able to quickly dump a bunch of rounds into a sheet of printer paper, just looking over the top of the gun with your focus on the target, not the sights. You wont be getting those tight little bullseye groups, but I'll bet most of the rounds will be right where you were looking, and you can cover the hits on target, with a softball or small 'lope.

    Give it a try it at 5 yards and see for yourself.
     
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  20. Tinman357

    Tinman357 Member

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    SimonRL.. Yes, Sig p365. 9" paper plate at 25yds is a good baseline. Like I said, most days I keep them on the plate, others not so much.

    Yes, I need more practice, I know that.

    I do slow fire for smallest group at 25yd. Looking to get down to 3" with my g-17.

    Progress is slow.

    What was your point?
     
  21. Lo-Profile

    Lo-Profile Member

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    I just use a 8x11 sheet of paper with a stick on 1" dot as a aiming point. Most times as a target. For indoor shooting if they have automatic target runners, I'll put the target on backwards with a 1" dot winning point.

    Gun selection is also relevant as some guns just aren't going to group worth a crap.
    I know I can't hit crap with a Glock, they just don't "feel" good to me. I'm a old 1911 shooter, my EDC is a Sig Sauer C3, has been around 15 years. I can be on paper at 25m with it easily.
    My wife has a G2C and can put all her shots on target at 7y (8x11 paper).

    If you want a tough drill. Use a 5x8 index card, start at 3y, shoot a complete magazine (or 8 rounds) until all shots hit the card. Then move back 3y. Repeat out to 21y. If you miss, start over.
    When you can do this consistently, switch to a 3x5 card.
    I've shot this drill hundreds of times, it can suck since days. Bring lots of ammo, I run this drill with a Dan Wesson Guardian in 9mm.

    Check out some of the Wilson Combat drills as well on YouTube.
     
  22. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    Having the presence of mind to ask that question, set a pragmatic goal and then work towards it, is good enough.

    You're talking about carrying a gun, so that if you find someone threatening your very existence, you can defend yourself. There is no quantitative minimum standard required to attempt to preserve your own life.

    You are overthinking it. Stop overthinking it.
     
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  23. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    It is indeed.
     
  24. SimonRL

    SimonRL Member

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    It wasn’t trying to make a point. I consider myself a pretty deft shooter and I shoot 25yds pretty regularly, but not with a compact. My compacts are a P365 and a P30sk and like you I can hit a paper plate but consistently hitting 3 in groups is an ambitious goal. I can do it with my P226 Legion, but either of my compacts not so much so. I assume we’re talking offhand, not from a rest. Are you going to make me up my game?
     
  25. Tinman357

    Tinman357 Member

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    SimonRL; No my High Road friend, I was kinda hoping you'd make me up mine some. I was downplaying it some, with my standard P365 I rarely miss the plate unless I'm mag dumping. :D

    All offhand. No bench.

    While I do practice for 3" at 25yd with my G17, its pretty routine after a warm up. Cold, not so much. I judge my shooting baseline on the first mag, but its usually pretty close to 5", usually.

    I am trying to get a solid, reliable 3" @ 25 with the 365. The little thing is capable of it, but I may not be. :(

    Below is a 14rd string I shot cold with my 3" 686+. First time out with it, it surprised me. All shots were DA at a good pace of about 10 seconds per cylinder. The first 7 were a tad low/left so I adjusted up/over 1 click and it tightened up nicely. :)

    Dry practice certainly paid off with this one, helped with shooting all the other ones as well. Now I always start my practice sessions with the 686 and finish up with my EDC.

    Screenshot_20220813-143003_QuickPic~01.jpg

    To the OP, you are shooting good. Keep at it. Move away from your comfort zone when practicing. Smaller targets or further away. It'll become second nature.

    On the other hand, I have a G21 that won't hit the ground if I drop it. I swear that gun couldn't hit a barn if I was shooting from the inside. But a friend of mine can hit pretty well with it. Go figure.:cuss::cuss:
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2022
    SimonRL likes this.
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