Comparing Seating Depth of Three 9mm Bullet Brands

[higgite]

So wouldn't all .557" bullets have the ogive in the same place? And then seating by tip would push the base to the same depth.

In my half vast experience, that's not the case.

From post #18,

To each his own, but I would rather have .005” variation in COL than .005” variation in seating depth. That’s why I aim for specific base-to-ogive length. I’ve found various brands of bullets to have a more consistent BTO length than OAL.

But, I repeat myself.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Maybe time to add an air ride seat to your boat to absorb the impact. I'm going to be forced to replace the seat on my lawnmower to one before long.

I replaced the seat on my lawn mower with a 20 year old kid who has an expensive hobby: horses.

 

[ray15]

Just because most people can't shoot a normal pistol accurate enough to bother doesn't change correct things, it probably should make them worry less about incorrect or inconsistent things though.

View attachment 1229146

That said, if one is looking for more accuracy, I can already tell they are going in the wrong direction if they are using plated bullets. They are not known for their accuracy.

In some ways your pic stresses my point, but there was more to what I am saying. If you are shooting from a ransom rest with a scope, obviously things get pretty critical. And by the same token, the sort of arm you would shoot the SMKs you were measuring in your prior post is going to offer the ability to exploit any jump-to-land consistency improvement you can make.

But something like a 9mm pistol has sensitivities of its own. A 9mm RN projectile doesn't extend very far into the case mouth, making neck tension a challenge. In some cases you may have more to gain from seating deeper to gain neck tension even if the jump to land is greater than otherwise preferred. A plated bullet is such a case (no pun intended).

Plated bullets do present challenges, especially if you try to force all related decision making into the same box as loading for a precision rifle. Yes, the general principles are the same, but the priorities can sort out differently. Plated bullets are not hopeless, though, and I've had excellent results with the Berry's 115 RN in my 9mm guns, even in the context of the performance delivered by truly good jacketed bullets like the in-house RMR stuff I also use a lot of. I don't bother with plated unless I can get them appreciably cheaper, but if I can, I don't give up much, and nothing that is material if you aren't shooting off a ransom rest with a scope.

Seating bullets of different lengths to the same OAL, just makes the bases of the bullets all wind up at different locations.

If only there was a bullet he could use that was consistent with respect to length..

... Berry's 9mm 115gr. plated RN. 10 randomly chosen examples differ in length by 0.0015"

This was the sort of solution the OP was looking for. And the same restrike process that is resulting in the very consistent lengths is going to produce consistent ogive shape, position and seating depth loaded at a consistent OAL.

 

[bullseye308]

One thing I never gave enough attention to was the depth of the bullet in the case, especially in 9mm. Probably because I don’t load very hot or close to max rounds, as that is where it would matter the most, but it is something to remember. I do need to load up some more SD rounds and that will be something I’ll be more aware of, as will be setback.

 

[jmorris]

I don't give up much, and nothing that is material if you aren't shooting off a ransom rest with a scope.

I have won a lot of matches with them, so they are "good enough" but accuracy requirements are not that demanding in the games I play with 9mm pistols. Once you quantify group sizes though, its easy to tell the difference between them and JHP's. If all of the other links in the chain are capable of shooting small.

I don't blame that on OAL difference in the projectiles though.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

The really funny thing about this hobby is all the contradictions. It’s no big deal shooting.357” or .358” projectiles in a .38S&W with its .360/.361” grooves but heaven forbid you shoot a .354” projectile in a .355” groove 9mm.

 

[LiveLife]

The really funny thing about this hobby is all the contradictions. It’s no big deal shooting.357” or .358” projectiles in a .38S&W with its .360/.361” grooves but heaven forbid you shoot a .354” projectile in a .355” groove 9mm.

Maybe because revolver loads also use ROLL CRIMP into crimp groove to hold the bullet but 9mm uses taper crimp where RESIZING of case neck mostly holds the bullet which is affected by bullet sizing?

 

[.45Coltguy]

Awesome! From 9mm OAL to Gulf fishing. Excellent.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Part of the reason why we chose this area for retirement was un-dammed flow of several rivers creating a clean water buffer zone with ocean currents. So bottom feeding fish near mouths of rivers like Rock fish/Ling Cod have low contamination levels for eating (We have fishermen from SF area trailering their boats all the way up here because they cannot eat the fish caught there due to contamination).

Many fishermen in the area will go out several miles in their small boats to 200' for Halibut where you can see two distinct salinity waters separated (almost like oil/water separation). My sea-legs are wobbly so I prefer to hug the coastline around 50'-100' depth for Rock Fish and Ling Cod which wife and I both like, especially beer battered. I can troll for Salmon in same depth of water before they enter the rivers (When they do, we fish off the river).


Florida was one of many retirement destinations for us but I have aging parents in their late 70s in Oregon so we are staying in the area for them until they pass.

OK, back to OP - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-three-9mm-bullet-brands.934086/post-12985889

A lot of occasional fishermen (like me) go fishing in Potomac for stripers/rock the day after Thanksgiving. Parts of the river are deep and last time out we were fishing in about 100 feet over a WW2 U-boat wreck (towed & sunk after war). We were in a 50ft boat BTW Not a productive day at all...only two...one four footer and a three.

 

[zeke]

For 9mm 115 fmj's, am more concerned with consistent and full bullet dia, max bearing length, consistent ogee seating depth and ogee close to the lands than col. Am getting this with win 115 hbfmj seated close to max col.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Using just one bullet brand, I separated by bullet length--.556"

Then, I loaded five dummies measuring & adjusting OAL of just the first one to 1.135".

With the remaining four I didn't adjust the die and the OALs were 1.135, 1.135, 1.355, and 1.137.

So, in this instance, sorting by bullet length does make a difference. The variance is nonexistent until it is.

Again, not worrying about this, not trying to identify/solve a problem, just posting observations.

Edit: that is it makes a difference WRT OAL. Now as for the length at ogive, who the heck knows.

 

[Walkalong]

Wouldn't it be more important for them all to be seated to the same exact case capacity vs OAL?

But with mixed brass how could you do that? So buy good new cases, then make sure the bullet
base is exactly the same amount above the case web each time one is seated, and hope those
cases are uniform enough for the capacity to be the same now, or.........................

........seat the RN to end up between 1.130 & 1.135 and forget about it.

Hmm, I wonder if I pulled that one, or that JHP was seated .003 longer than the others........like 1.078?

 

[Soonerpesek]

One of those is drastically different, I can’t guess what you meant to type..…

 

[CQB45ACP]

One of those is drastically different, I can’t guess what you meant to type..…

That IS what I meant to type. My nonexistent until it is [existent] was too cute I guess.

Wouldn't it be more important for them all to be seated to the same exact case capacity vs OAL?

But with mixed brass how could you do that? So buy good new cases, then make sure the bullet
base is exactly the same amount above the case web each time one is seated, and hope those
cases are uniform enough for the capacity to be the same now, or.........................

........seat the RN to end up between 1.130 & 1.135 and forget about it.

Hmm, I wonder if I pulled that one, or that JHP was seated .003 longer than the others........like 1.078?
View attachment 1229395

Well to begin with I don't use mixed brass.

 

[Soonerpesek]

.

 

[Soonerpesek]

1.135, 1.135, 1.355, and 1.137.

One of these is not like the others…

 

[CQB45ACP]

One of these is not like the others…

I know. Was going to add “boom” in front of last number but thought folks would freak.

 

[9mmepiphany]

That IS what I meant to type. My nonexistent until it is [existent] was too cute I guess.

I thought it was pretty obvious the way you typed it

 

[Soonerpesek]

That IS what I meant to type. My nonexistent until it is [existent] was too cute I guess.

I thought it was pretty obvious the way you typed it

.220” difference is quite a bit, I thought you maybe mistyped it…

I musta missed the joke somewhere…

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

.220” difference is quite a bit, I thought you maybe mistyped it…

I musta missed the joke somewhere…

With the remaining four I didn't adjust the die and the OALs were 1.135, 1.135, 1.355, and 1.137.

Me neither. That’s alarming.

 

[9mmepiphany]

The variance is nonexistent until it is.

The part some are missing is "...until it is"... which refers to the outlier; which is way out there.

That means the variance existed and he noticed it...he didn't miss it

 

[Soonerpesek]

The part some are missing is "...until it is"... which refers to the outlier; which is way out there.

That means the variance existed and he noticed it...he didn't miss it

It would be almost impossible to NOT notice almost 1/4”……!!

 

[Soonerpesek]

The part some are missing is "...until it is"... which refers to the outlier; which is way out there.

That means the variance existed and he noticed it...he didn't miss it

And..................if he didn't touch the die after he had it set........................... .220" variance is NOT on the die.......................



Like I sed earlier........................................I musta missed the joke..............................or I'm an idiot................either is possible.............

 

[CQB45ACP]

And..................if he didn't touch the die after he had it set........................... .220" variance is NOT on the die.......................



Like I sed earlier........................................I musta missed the joke..............................or I'm an idiot................either is possible.............

I'll pull the bullets today and measure them again. Should all be .556"

Will try two other brands as well to see if I get any outliers like this.

BTW, this is a Redding competition micro die with the stem contacting the ogive, not bullet tip. Might give my Lee die a try also.

For those saying this is a waste of time. That's okay, it's my time. Besides, with this crappy weather what else am I going to do read the Lee micrometer thread?

 

[lordpaxman]

I’m glad I didn’t spring for the Redding competition micro die if this is all it does!

I’m circling back to your OP, I thought you were really concerned about COL to negate feeding issues? Yet it seems like you’re seating on ogive, which may or may not be the same across these bullets. Rather than measuring bullet OAL, shouldn’t you measure bullet base to ogive or something?
And, I know seating depth is extremely important, but, unless you’re on the edge a few or even ten thou is not going to put you in kaboom territory.