conceal permits=gun registration

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Like you said it is one person's opinion.

I think anytime you can educate people as to how & when the use of deadly force is applicable you are doing a good thing. CCP do just that, education is the key, and training is good thing.

I'm not sure where this guys paranoia comes from but it is deep seeded. You can have 20 pistols and 1 CCP. They would not know you have the other pistols. In today's world buying a firearm has all kinds of Gov. paperwork with it anyway. The Gov. knows you have it, they don't know if you sell it, and to whom.

IMHO it is this kind of right wing thinking that gives gun owners a bad name.
 
In Ohio, one does not need, at any time, to specify which, or *any* gun is owned by a CCL holder. The CCL covers any, or multiple, guns that one may carry without specifying. For all they know, I don't even have a gun.

K
 
The JPFO doesn't take a nuanced position on much of anything.

Your guns are already registered to some extent. Are NICS records really destroyed? Maybe. Bound books are kept for a long long time. Credit card purchase records stick around for a long time. Many states also have their own forms that stick around.

CCW is the best thing there is for gun rights. Yes, Vermont-style carry might be better but CCW is a good intermediate step.

jpfo said:
Destroy your CCP, advise your local, county, state law enforcement that you do not have a CCP. Make sure that your information is off any and all state data bases.

...

If you must carry, be very careful, with the search rules that are in place by the courts, you will be taking a chance.
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Ok, if you are willing to stand up for your beliefs to the extent that you are willing to risk all the consequences, that's cool, but for most of us, we balance all this with all the other things we have going on in our lives and we decide to make some compromises here and there. Doing all the paperwork to get a cCW is a compromise I can live with.
 
The argument of CCW being a form of back door registration has been going on since CCW permits began to be issued.

I'm NOT. But if I was the feds and wanted to know who had what in this country I would follow these gun boards as every one is always asking and telling what's in their homes, cars, under the beds, in the safes, closets ,up their Kazoo and every other place. Keep a lil tally and a list. Then go pick up what I needed.:eek:

To my way of thinking...The 2nd A. gives us the right to carry guns anywhere, everywhere, anytime. But I guess we have to have a way to sort out the nut cases from packing.

As everyone knows they aren't going to pay any attention to one law or 20000 laws!

Therefore they have to load up the folks who will follow their stupid laws.:cuss:
 
In some states (New York for example) a CCW license holder's guns are listed on the permit - but then they have gun registration anyway. :cuss:

In Arizona, where I live, a CCW permit does not list any guns, and during the CCW process none of the paperwork lists any firearms whatsoever. And for the record, gun registration is illegal in Arizona. :)

Obviously there is no back-door registration here. :cool:
 
In Arizona, where I live, a CCW permit does not list any guns, and during the CCW process none of the paperwork lists any firearms whatsoever.
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Good... but it's kind of obvious that someone who pays for a "permit" to bear arms probably has some arms. The Vermont or NH system is better (and notice their crime rates!)
 
Can you say 4473? Ever buy a gun, parts or accessories with a credit card? Online? Ever attend a shooting school? Go to shooting ranges? Subscribe to gun magazines? Have a hunting license? Post in online forums? Write letters to politicians? Letters to the editor? A member of the NRA or other gun groups? Does your friends or relatives know you have firearms? Have any NFA items or a C&R license?

If the government wants to know if you own guns, nothing will stop them from finding out. Time to worry about something important.
 
Calzoom the thinking about the nutcases is all nice and good until they decide your a nutcase. Who decides that someone is a nutcase?

In all seriousness...

a nutcase with a gun will get sorted out sooner than later.
 
In Arizona, where I live, a CCW permit does not list any guns, and during the CCW process none of the paperwork lists any firearms whatsoever. And for the record, gun registration is illegal in Arizona.
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I'm not familiar with Arizona laws, but isnt open carry legal without a permit? If so, why does the state bother with CCW permits?

Calzoom the thinking about the nutcases is all nice and good until they decide your a nutcase. Who decides that someone is a nutcase?
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This is true. The 2nd Amendment specifies that everyone should be allowed to bear arms. It could even be argued that felons are within their 2A rights, since the disqualification of felons is not enumerated. Now is that a good idea? Probably not... but who are we to second guess the intent of the founding fathers?
 
This is a perfect example of a quote that was brought up in another thread;

"By insisting that liberty is an all-or-nothing proposition, civil libertarians make it more likely that we will eventually end up with nothing."
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G-d bless JPFO for their tireless work for RKBA, but they sometimes tend to get a little too "tin foil hatty".

Then again, to use another quote; "Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you."



Oh well, I still contend that right to carry laws (even if they require a piece of paper from the state) do more to expand RKBA and gun ownership (which in turn expands those interested in preserving RKBA) then they do to endanger our gun rights.
 
The 2nd Amendment specifies that everyone should be allowed to bear arms.
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I've never seen anything that indicates the FF believed the 2A extended to criminals and the mentally unstable. In fact, the way that the criminal element is referred to makes me think they would have supported the felon prohibition, at least for violent acts.
 
Gun owner registration.

I don't believe in most states that issue CCW licenses there is a need to list CCW guns on the license. Though NY does have hanguns listed on the LTC. In truth CCW licenses are a form of a state gun owner registration. The state knows everyone that has the license will more than likley have more firearms and know people that do.
In Mass we need a Firearm ID license to own a long gun, and a License to Carry permit to own (not carry) a handgun. If one wants to carry a handgun, they would need a LTC Class "A" with an special clause added by the LEO, giving permission to carry for SD. The clause is hard to obtain in many towns/cities, because the LEO refuses to allow CCW. In addition in Massachusetts we already have a quasi form of gun registration through mandatory registration, through the State Police, of all firearms bought, transfered and sold by Mass residents. Even guns bought out of state or brought into the state by a new resident have to be registured through the SP.
 
Years and years ago, my oldest brother in PA got a carry permit.

I was outraged. I told him that it was his absolute Second Amendment right to carry a pistol, and the laws be damned.

Well, when it came time for me to need to begin carrying, I found out that doing so under WI law is 100% illegal. No exceptions, and lots of legal hassles if you do.

And there's the choice: call the law "crazy," and have your day in court; or fight to repeal the crazy law.

Like many keyboard commando's, I decided that it would be less painful to go the legislative route.
 
If a CCW license is a form of gun registration, so is a hunting license to a degree.

I'm not familiar with Arizona laws, but isnt open carry legal without a permit? If so, why does the state bother with CCW permits?
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Not everyone is in agreement that open carry is the way to go at all times and under all circumstances.
 
I'm not familiar with Arizona laws, but isnt open carry legal without a permit? If so, why does the state bother with CCW permits?
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Tactical reasons. If you know someone has a gun before attacking them you can plan for it, esspecialy if there are two attackers if you know the target has a gun and where it isn't to hard to keep him from being able to draw it.
 
The law states the weapon or holster must be wholly or partially visible, so the bottom half of the rig hanging out from under your vest/jacket/t-shirt is legal, as long as a cop can reasonably expect to identify it as a holster.
The only exception is fanny packs, even though designed as holsters, are NOT open carry.
CCW is AZ is not weapon specific, and if you happen to own legal NFA, you can CCW them, too....
 
Yes, you can open carry in Arizona, and out-of-state residents can also get permits... :cool:

But there are times and places where open carry may not be a good idea, and being discreet does have it's advantages. It used to be that open carry was the only way to carry legally. The present situation is much better.
 
Big deal, so I'm on a list. If the gov't goes all out attack on the American people, you think the "people " will win? They know who does what and has what from multiple sources. Tighten up the tinfoil and buy more ammo. Joe
 
If you aren't on a list, then you aren't trying hard enough.

I absolutely can't stand this philosophy.

I can't get a CCW, because then I'll be on a list! I can't buy a gun in a store and fill out a 4473 because then I'll be on a list! I can't get an NFA item because then I'll be on a list! I can't write my congressman because then I'll be on a list! I can't join a politically active organization because then I'll be on a list!

Damn it. I want the list to be so long, with millions and millions of names that the confiscators are going to take one long hard look at it and say, there is just no way. I want our numbers to be legion. I want thirty million nationwide CCW holders and ten million people to own suppresors.

I'm on the To Do list. And I'm proud of it.
 
I've never seen anything that indicates the FF believed the 2A extended to criminals and the mentally unstable. In fact, the way that the criminal element is referred to makes me think they would have supported the felon prohibition, at least for violent acts.
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I agree, I dont like the idea of felons having firearms. But my point was that since they were never specifically excluded by the Constitution, laws forbidding their ownership of guns could be argued as unconstitutional.

Think of it this way... we dont deny felons or mentally unstable folks other Constitutional protections, so why the 2A?

I'm sort of playing the "Devil's Advocate" here, just for the sake of discussion. :D
 
I'm going to differ.

I can be found to be a gun owner in a hundred different ways. For starters, I have my name on numerous purchase records, as do all of you. Second, my real name is plastered all over the internet in conjunction with pro 2A causes. Third, I have a firearm safety certificate from way back. Fourth, I'm a certified Range Officer. Does anything think for a moment that government employee would not be able to figure out that I am a gun owner?

And, I have a MN permit to carry. No guns were registered during the process, nor does my state have a mechanism for such. My permit to carry doesn't give them any information that they don't already have. They can already infer that I own guns.

Now, what they don't know is, they don't know exactly what I have, or if I still have what I had, and other details. They want to show up and tear my house apart they'll find some stuff to bring back to their communist leaders. But, I am quite sure that when they leave, the major pieces of my SHTF collection will remain at my disposal.
 
I'm on the To Do list. And I'm proud of it.
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[bumperSticker]
I'm on The Enemy's To Do List. Why Aren't You?
[/bumperSticker]

[oldSaw]
If you get through your life without having made any enemies, you've done it all wrong.
[/oldSaw]
 
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