Concealable Revolver
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CHEVELLE427
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when i need to carry a small revolver i have a 850 CIA ultralight not a days trouble out of it and sometimes you forget you have it on its so light.
not a revolver
but i also use this kel-tec in a NOT AOW wallet holster.
not a revolver
but i also use this kel-tec in a NOT AOW wallet holster.
harmon rabb
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Unless you're experienced at shooting DA revolvers, I'd stay away from any j-frame. I'm mostly a semi-auto guy (and of those, prefer SA triggers), but I own a few revolvers. I bought a j-frame with the intention of carrying it. The trigger must've been 20lbs -- it was laughably, wow, I can't believe they actually sell this thing bad. It functioned flawlessly, but I just couldn't shoot it well. It also was pretty snappy for what is a lower end cartridge (as a comparison, my little taurus 709 snaps a good deal less with 9mm+p).
Anyway, I got rid of it for a SP101 (since I already had a GP100 that I love). Wow, what a difference. Much better trigger, and it's actually comfortable to fire -- even with full bore .357. It's definitely a belt carry only gun, and requires a real gun belt, but with an iwb holster and my beltman belt, it disappears under a t-shirt. I think it has something to do with the curve of the grip or whatever, but the darn thing just doesn't print.
If you want to actually be able to enjoy shooting the thing, especially with .357, I say get a SP101.
Anyway, I have tried out the LCR. Fantastic trigger, soaks up recoil better. In fact, had I purchased a LCR instead of the j-frame (as I almost did), I'd still own it. If you want a pocketable revolver, it's the way to go. But I can't imagine what it would be like to fire .357 out of it. Would probably feel like slamming your hand in a car door ever time you take a shot.
Anyway, I got rid of it for a SP101 (since I already had a GP100 that I love). Wow, what a difference. Much better trigger, and it's actually comfortable to fire -- even with full bore .357. It's definitely a belt carry only gun, and requires a real gun belt, but with an iwb holster and my beltman belt, it disappears under a t-shirt. I think it has something to do with the curve of the grip or whatever, but the darn thing just doesn't print.
If you want to actually be able to enjoy shooting the thing, especially with .357, I say get a SP101.
Anyway, I have tried out the LCR. Fantastic trigger, soaks up recoil better. In fact, had I purchased a LCR instead of the j-frame (as I almost did), I'd still own it. If you want a pocketable revolver, it's the way to go. But I can't imagine what it would be like to fire .357 out of it. Would probably feel like slamming your hand in a car door ever time you take a shot.
MCgunner
Member
CHEVELLE427, did you make that holster? It's really cool, if a little illegal looking.
CHEVELLE427
Member
DEALER ON GUN BROKER AND EBAY.
cheaper on EBAY same dealer
also asked for paper work from BATF showing it is NOT AN AOW item. i also talked to a local ATF guy and he said it WAS NOT on his list.
i carry a copy of the BATF PAPER with me and have a laminated one in the truck just in case
$32 total in this one no body bid on it but me
cheaper on EBAY same dealer
also asked for paper work from BATF showing it is NOT AN AOW item. i also talked to a local ATF guy and he said it WAS NOT on his list.
i carry a copy of the BATF PAPER with me and have a laminated one in the truck just in case
$32 total in this one no body bid on it but me
TexasBill
Member
1I have a Model 60-15 and a Model 637-2. Bought them in preference to any of the Rugers. Much better triggers. That said, I understand the Wolf springs do a nice job for Ruger triggers and the SP101 is definitely robust.
IMHO, a .357 Magnum in a LCR or one of the S&W Scandiums is case of being able to build a lightweight revolver to fire a powerful cartridge without asking anyone if it's really a good idea. The various reviews I have read all say it punishes your hand, to the point of bleeding in at least one case. That's stupid. It's not about macho, it's about going home instead of the hospital or morgue.
I know everyone says in the stress of a firefight you don't feel the recoil but I have a hunch there's a limit to even that. The laws of physics don't care about your situation and they will affect your ability to deliver the quick the follow-up shot that is almost universally recommended in these cases. In addition, the too-small grips deprive you of important hand strength; the last two fingers are the primary gripping digits. That's why I replaced the factory grips on both my S&Ws with grips that allow me to have the maximum control.
If you really want to carry .357 Magnum in a small-frame revolver, you should select the Model 60 or the Ruger SP101, preferably with a 3-inch barrel. Either one is still a handful, but the extra weight and barrel length will make the gun far more controllable.
IMHO, a .357 Magnum in a LCR or one of the S&W Scandiums is case of being able to build a lightweight revolver to fire a powerful cartridge without asking anyone if it's really a good idea. The various reviews I have read all say it punishes your hand, to the point of bleeding in at least one case. That's stupid. It's not about macho, it's about going home instead of the hospital or morgue.
I know everyone says in the stress of a firefight you don't feel the recoil but I have a hunch there's a limit to even that. The laws of physics don't care about your situation and they will affect your ability to deliver the quick the follow-up shot that is almost universally recommended in these cases. In addition, the too-small grips deprive you of important hand strength; the last two fingers are the primary gripping digits. That's why I replaced the factory grips on both my S&Ws with grips that allow me to have the maximum control.
If you really want to carry .357 Magnum in a small-frame revolver, you should select the Model 60 or the Ruger SP101, preferably with a 3-inch barrel. Either one is still a handful, but the extra weight and barrel length will make the gun far more controllable.
jad0110
Member
My experience is identical. With my 642, I did a bunch of dry firing, then removed the sideplate and cleaned out the internals. The action was already decent, but nowadays it is very slick. The pull is a bit heavier than the LCR, but it is every bit as smooth. And I much prefer the firmer, more positive trigger return on the 642.
Interesting. It is said by many that usually, S&Ws have better triggers out of the box than their Ruger counterparts, but Rugers improve with use. But with LCRs / J Frames, the opposite is the case.
harmon rabb
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I have fired 3 different S&W's (a j-frame, a .357, a .44mag) and have yet to experience this awesome trigger I read about regularly. In fact, the best trigger of the bunch was about on par with my GP100.
What gives? S&W makes some beautiful revolvers and I'd like an excuse to own, say, a 686+. But I can't seem to find a reason to.
MCgunner
Member
I agree and I've often stated on this board that my Taurus 85SSUL's trigger is the best out of the box I've ever felt. I've owned two Ruger DAs, a Security Six and a SP101. Triggers were smooth, just that Ruger goes overboard on strength and that includes the springs. BUT, Wolff makes springs for cheap and in both cases a simple spring kit helped a bunch. When I got through with that SS, it was budda!
I've felt some Smith triggers that were awesome, really awesome, but they weren't that way out of the box. My buddy has a M29 he picked up at an estate sale for 300 bucks. Damn, the luck! It's been magnaported and has one SUPER smooth, light DA. It's obviuusly had the attention of a good revolver smith. That thing is awesome.
On a carry gun, hell, I don't really worry about out of the box. Triggers can be slicked up. However, I haven't had to do a thing to my Taurus, but shoot it. Thing is incredible. Neat thing about the Rugers, especially that little SP101, were both very smooth, just needed lighter springs. It was a DIY job for 10 bucks or so for a spring kit.
About the only revolver I've ever tried that had a trigger beyond fixing and beyond shooting out of the box was a Nagant, though. I don't find the J frames unshootable out of the box. Hell, we're nit picking here IMHO with the triggers.
Guillermo
member
MIM parts can not be polished effectively but can be "burnished". So dry firing them until your family is ready to bludgeon you is about the best you can do.
I agree with Guillermo on burnishing MIM parts rather then polishing - and you won't take a chance on voiding your warrantee.
A fast way to get a less-heavy double-action trigger pull is to swap out the factory springs for lighter aftermarket ones. But it is not a good way to go about it, especially on any handgun that might be used for defensive purposes. If you doubt me, call up Smith & Wesson, Ruger or Taurus and ask. Of course keep in mind that some keyboard commando on the Internet is far more knowledgeable about such things then the gun manufacturers are.
Switching springs is a technique employed by those that don't know the right way to go about it, and yes there are other ways - but they involve a considerable investment in jigs, fixtures, gauges and specialized tools.
A fast way to get a less-heavy double-action trigger pull is to swap out the factory springs for lighter aftermarket ones. But it is not a good way to go about it, especially on any handgun that might be used for defensive purposes. If you doubt me, call up Smith & Wesson, Ruger or Taurus and ask. Of course keep in mind that some keyboard commando on the Internet is far more knowledgeable about such things then the gun manufacturers are.
Switching springs is a technique employed by those that don't know the right way to go about it, and yes there are other ways - but they involve a considerable investment in jigs, fixtures, gauges and specialized tools.
Guillermo
member
actually Guillermo agrees with Old Fuff. He mentioned this to me and because of that conversation here on THR I spend 45 minutes talking to a talented gunsmith who refuses to do a trigger job on an MIM gun. He says that he cannot make enough difference to be worth his client's money.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I carry either a S&W M642 or M638 daily. I like the Airweight and the .38 Special and will continue to carry them.
Stainz
Member
S&W still does a masterful trigger job to centerfire K, L, & N frames. They know where to polish - and how to change springs. That's right - their Performance Center changes springs! Why? Obviously, their stock/OEM springs are stronger than they need be. They want to be sure, whatever it's state of cleanliness, that your defender will pop anyone's primers - that means a stout hammer spring. They want to be sure the trigger returns rapidly for follow-up shots - thus, a stout trigger rebound spring. Both add to the DA pull. Even a full strength Wolff hammer spring lessens the DA pull - change the trigger rebound spring to the heaviest one Wolff includes in their 'kit', and you get another, albeit slight, DA improvement. Polish the rebound slide's inside and break any flash from it's 'flat' sides with a flat fine sharpening stone, and you'll cut a lot of time/dry-fires out of the equation and be smoother more quickly. Don't touch the engagement areas - they 'wear-in' quickly.
You don't believe S&W uses other-than-OEM springs? Both of my PC627 UDR's came with Wolff springs - the familiar rib was present. Also, a full sized strain screw. That is important - a modern 'quick trigger job', like my 625JM and 627 Pro came with, involves grinding down the factory screw - and modern strain screws are smaller on the end, anyway. The combination means less pre-load - that screw actually intruding into the 'hump' on the Wolff leaf, further reducing the pre-load, when tightened. Great trigger - fantastic with the reduced leaf. Of course, to reliably pop Federal primers, you'll need a tailwind.
All of this said and I do nothing but 'clean up' the innards of my CCW's. They don't have to be my finest plinkers - that isn't there mission. They have to be reliable - and, if used, not able to be held up in court as a being 'modified'. Paranoid... me? I don't care what the voices say!
Stainz
You don't believe S&W uses other-than-OEM springs? Both of my PC627 UDR's came with Wolff springs - the familiar rib was present. Also, a full sized strain screw. That is important - a modern 'quick trigger job', like my 625JM and 627 Pro came with, involves grinding down the factory screw - and modern strain screws are smaller on the end, anyway. The combination means less pre-load - that screw actually intruding into the 'hump' on the Wolff leaf, further reducing the pre-load, when tightened. Great trigger - fantastic with the reduced leaf. Of course, to reliably pop Federal primers, you'll need a tailwind.
All of this said and I do nothing but 'clean up' the innards of my CCW's. They don't have to be my finest plinkers - that isn't there mission. They have to be reliable - and, if used, not able to be held up in court as a being 'modified'. Paranoid... me? I don't care what the voices say!
Stainz
leVieux
Member
We have both the GLOCK 26 and the S&W Scandium 38+P J-frame.
The GLOCK 26 gets carried a lot more frequently.
leVieux
The GLOCK 26 gets carried a lot more frequently.
leVieux
And what do you do if you encounter a headwind???
Smith and Wesson's Performance Center does indeed use some aftermarket springs - but usually only in big-boy toys.
The primary focus concerning overweight double-action trigger pulls is directed at the company’s small J-frame revolvers, where users have unreasonable expectations, not the K, L and N sizes. Also J-frame revolvers are seldom used in environments where one can afford to cut the reliability factor to the point where they have to depend on a tailwind if using the wrong brand of primers or ammunition.
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