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Concealed carriers can be the worst people.

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by wild cat mccane, Oct 4, 2009.

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  1. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Oh, Bill, Bill, Bill... :banghead:

    There are a number of states that do not limit their citizens' right to self defense merely based on consumption of alcohol.

    PA, my beautiful home state (Commonwealth), is one. Further, we don't have a statuatory limit on BAC to carry, either.

    This Sunday I sat down to a nice lunch and a good beer with my family at a bar & grill with my 1911 on my hip. No laws broken, and no-one died! Imagine that. In fact, I could have carried openly and done the same thing. Wouldn't the good folks in Texas have a heart attack over THAT? :D

    Seriously, you should read this thread for a recent discussion of the realities of carry & bars: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=477743

    To tell you the truth, in response to your jab about not wanting to spend the weekend somewhere where carrying while drinking was legal, I recently spent 5 days in a state where bar carry is, at best, a confused issue. The experience was UNNERVING in the extreme. Always having to check to make sure I was legal in some place or having to go back to the car to stow my gun just to enter an establishment! Yikes. It was good to get home and breathe "free" air again! :D

    -Sam
     
  2. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    One way or another, it's probably not a good idea to spit out your chew and say, "Are you gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?" when a guy looks at an attractive woman and has a bulge in his pocket.
     
  3. Spirit 1

    Spirit 1 Member

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    Wildcat McCane, I don't think you have any idea what you're doing! You haven't got a clue what's going on!

    Now, if those comments got your hackles up right away I think it will make my point.

    I also had no idea, no clue, what I was doing. A girl made a comment to me, "Why did you stare at them like that?" Huh? I didn't think I was staring. A little later, "See, you did it again!" I thought, man, this girl's getting weird here.

    Then I began to watch 'me'. Wow, she was right! Several times before I'd had encounters with guys that I didn't expect, like them getting aggressive. How come? Because of ME! I was staring at them and plenty of people take that as aggressive behavior, a challenge, "You looking at me, punk!??"

    You stated that you STARED at them for 20 seconds, a third of a minute, and then turned and stared at them as they walked away, after passing you. Hey, guess what? That's pretty aggressive, especially in the bars I used to hang in. And in the bars I went to guys didn't spend their time looking at other guys below the belt, reason enough right there to get your teeth punched in! That crotch eyeballing wasn't included in the 20 seconds, because the 20 seconds were spent watching their eyes closely.

    So, these guys are leaving a bar and some guy comes up giving them the stare down, spends 1/2 a minute watching them intently, and then he's checking out their crotches, plus turning to watch them as they walk away. And you're surprised they didn't like that much, and maybe thought you were a potential problem? Or a little perverted?

    You seem to have a confrontational state of mind and also regularly engage in confrontational behavior. In other words you challenge people continually, whether you know it or not. I know I did, but only after it was pointed out to me.

    I changed my ways, like others here have suggested. Now everywhere I go, everyone I meet or pass, I try to give a nod, or a friendly smile, or 'Hi' or 'How ya doin'?' or whatever. Downright amazing how many nice people there are out there, who smile back and say hi. Haven't had to shoot anybody all week and it's Tuesday already.

    Like others said, you maybe need to take a close look at your own mind set before you go and shove a pistol in your pocket. A hair trigger temper isn't allowed for those that carry....
     
  4. Demitrios

    Demitrios Member

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    Well there's only one thing to do now. Take away whatever experience you can from this little incident and let the rest go. If a guy checks out your woman then let him check her out, no harm no foul. It's HER job to stick with you and YOUR job to give her proper (and I don't mean threats of harm) reasons to stay. Now if a guy is being a blatant lech, so what? You keep walking to your destination, start having a good time and before you know it you'll have forgotten about him. However if you see a guy eyeballing you and he reaches for his piece over a look, then something went terribly wrong and I'm thinking there's more to this story than what you're telling. He may've THOUGHT you were carrying and reacted pre-maturely, although that doesn't excuse him it still could've been his reason. And you need to learn not to carry into a bar, even if you're not drinking, it looks bad and can get you in a world of trouble (this' aimed at the older guy, not you).
     
  5. unloved

    unloved Member

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    :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2009
  6. rainbowbob

    rainbowbob Member

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    Spirit 1 learned it. I learned it. And so can you McCane.

    It just takes a little objective self-evaluation (usually after being corrected by others), and a realization that the purpose of carrying a DEFENSIVE firearm is to avoid violent confrontations and never have to use it.

    Avoidance means NOT being confrontational with looks, words, or actions. It means NEVER starting anything with anybody for any reason.

    It took me almost 58 years to learn this - and it only sunk in I started carrying regularly. The lessons came from posting experiences here (as you did) and having other posters point out where I went wrong and how to avoid such mistakes.

    It boils down to this...I try to avoid correcting the rude behavior of others in public. (Sometimes I still slip - like when people cut in line when it is obvious others have been waiting a long time).

    So I'm not always successful - but I'm trying to get my mind right.

    And I'm just paying it forward.

    You're a young guy and are way ahead of me if you learn this now the easy way - rather than later the hard way.
     
  7. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Sarcasm? Hard to tell on the internet. I'm assuming, seeing as you're in PA, you're kidding.

    -Sam
     
  8. unloved

    unloved Member

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    Oops, that line is a quote. I forgot to tag it. :eek: I'll fix it now.
     
  9. unloved

    unloved Member

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    Hold on while I don my asbestos underwear.:neener:







    OK, I carry into bars, restaurants that serve alcohol, and parties where alcohol is present all the time. I even drink while armed. It's perfectly legal in my state. Although I don't get drunk, I wouldn't be violating any law if I did. I don't buy the "impairment begins with the first drink" nonsense, and I'm a responsible adult who knows that 'drinking' doesn't mean pounding beers and slamming back shots until I'm blind and stupid.

    Flame away.:)
     
  10. f4t9r

    f4t9r Member

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    Some are better then others.
    I have ran accross some issues I did not agree with on CCW, but all types of people in the world.
    Guns and drinking not good in my opinion !!!
    If you are going to carry and drink then I hope you use good judgement of when to stop. Maybe a designated carrier & driver would work.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2009
  11. Keizer

    Keizer Member

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    I totally agree! I used to work as a machinist, and the owner was a captain for Delta airlines. I always admired his very calm personality. Then, I discovered that allot of airline pilots have the same calm personality. Then I figured out that this calm personality most likely goes hand in hand with being a good pilot. Especially when you are responsible for hundreds of peoples lives that are sitting behind you. I feel that if you are going to carry, I hope you have a similar personality as I described above.
     
  12. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Ahhh, makes sense now! I thought you'd had a mysterious change of perspective in, like, two days! :D


    Amazing how many people, even HERE, will toss out a line like, "Why, if you'd just DISARM yourself, everything would be fine!"

    The mind wobbles.

    -Sam
     
  13. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    A flash of logic that should be a sticky here!

    -Sam
     
  14. LightningMan

    LightningMan Member

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    In my state, I can carry while in an establishments that serve alcoholic beverages, but I can't consume them myself, otherwise I would be in violation of one of the restrictions placed apon my permit. Whats legal in one state, may not be in another. LM
     
  15. unloved

    unloved Member

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    How about knives and drinking? Pens and drinking? Pool cues and drinking? Heavy glass beer mugs and drinking? Hands, elbows, knees, and feet and drinking? The world is full of objects that could be used as deadly weapons. I'm physically capable of killing with my bare hands, most people are. Yet I've never committed murder. I submit that a reasonable number of drinks, over a reasonable period of time, will not turn a reasonable person into a pistol twirlin', celebratory shootin', maniac.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2009
  16. MT GUNNY

    MT GUNNY Member

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    The Quote "All is fair in Love and War" comes to mind!
     
  17. unloved

    unloved Member

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    It's strange that such a simple concept is so difficult for many to understand.
     
  18. Isher

    Isher Member

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    Grasshopper -

    Please to distinguish between

    Pocket trout

    And concealed carry.

    isher
     
  19. Tacbandit

    Tacbandit Member

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    Unbelievable.......
     
  20. DeepSouth

    DeepSouth Member

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    I might have been that fellow. Sorry :uhoh:

    I have my hand in my pocket, and therefore on my gun, when

    1: I'm pumping gas
    2: I'm standing in a checkout line (unless I have to hold items with both hands)
    3: I hear someone "getting loud" even if it is 200 ft away
    4: I'm standing out in public talking to a buddy
    5: I see someone looking at me "suspiciously"

    I'm not paranoid, I just have a habit of putting my hand in my pocket and while it is there I put in the most comfortable position......on the gun. The majority of the time I don't even realize I'm doing it. I pocket carry a PM45 and that is a pocket full, the draw from pocket is generally slow BUT if I start out with my hand already on my gun, draw time is significantly increased therefore, I doubt I'll be in a huge hurry to break the habit.
     
  21. drjoker

    drjoker Member

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    I think you're either a troll or at least in the wrong here.

    You GLARED at him. How's he supposed to know what you were thinking? You were not thinking of beating him up, but how's he supposed to know that? Is he a psychic? Usually, when someone comes out of a room of stupid people, I mean bar, and someone gives someone else a wrong look over a girl, a fight ensues. If it were me, I would immediately correct the misunderstanding by tipping my hat, smiling, and saying, "howdy."

    Second of all, carrying a gun into a bar is illegal in Texas. If it isn't illegal in your state, I'd avoid rooms of stupid people, I mean bars, altogether. I mean, how smart is that? A room full of DRUNKS tot'in guns! Alcohol makes people do stupid stuff. Doing stupid stuff with guns, yeah... right.

    Hey, if someone GLARED at me for doing what I, as a man, involuntarily does (stare at sexy chicks), I'd put my hand on my gun, too, because that glare usually precedes a brutal beating! As long as he doesn't take it out and brandish, it's fine. I've put my hand on my gun for fashion faux pas that are smaller violations than your angry glare. If someone walks into a convenience store wearing a hoodie and baggie clothes, I will reach for the gun in my pocket. If someone walks up to my car while I'm parked at a drive through, if someone approaches the bank teller with a large empty sack, I will put my hand on the gun. And just a couple of days ago, someone in "the hood" (the TX state fair is in a bad neighborhood) was wearing a hoodie and baggie clothes who approached my girl from behind, looked left and right, then started to pull something out of a sack. I immediately walk out of his blind side and into his field of view, put my hand in my bag and let him hear a loud "click". I shook my head, "no". He withdrew his hand from his sack and held it up to show that he had no weapon and backed away. I hate going to the state fair and parking off-site, but my girl always insists on doing stupid stuff like that. However, I don't think that guy nor I did anything wrong. We did not pull anything out and brandish. What we did was perfectly legal. I mean, for all you know, he was adjusting his package and I was opening a can of cola. I mean, it was concealed, right?

    However, in fairness, the other guy should've de-escalated and said, "Whoa, easy there, pardner." I smiled and nodded to the man in the hoodie after he started to back away. I did that on purpose so that I wouldn't "dis" him and end up escalating things (as in he'll return with his "homies" in tow).
     
  22. makarovnik

    makarovnik Member

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    I personally find that I behave better since I started carrying. I don't want to loose my gun rights so put up with a lot more crap than I used to. Heaven help you if you ever have to use your gun.

    Around here, carrying a gun in a bar is illegal.
     
  23. bigfatdave

    bigfatdave Member

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    I generally do the same, if someone is making me uncomfotrable, I'll look them right in the eye and say "hi there" with a big grin. The level of personal disturbment is proportional to the size of the grin, so if I'm really annoyed, the grin will be disturbingly large, it tends to send people away rapidly, which is generally the goal.
    A look in the eye and making your awarness of their presence is generally adequate to defuse a potential situation like the OP got soo excited about.
     
  24. bearmgc

    bearmgc Member

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    Seems to be painting with a broad brush, if 2 suspicious encounters qualify for his assumption. Vigilance shouldn't equal paranoia. Those are two different states.
     
  25. paul45

    paul45 Member

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    Sorry, life does not work that way.
     
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