Concealed Carry in Bear Country? 357 Mag, 41 Mag, or 45 ACP + P

Concealed Carry in Bear Country 357 Mag, 41 Mag, or 45 ACP +P

  • S&W 686+ 357 mag

    Votes: 46 44.2%

  • Taurus 415 41 mag

    Votes: 41 39.4%

  • Springfield XDM compact 45 acp+p

    Votes: 18 17.3%
  • Total voters
    104
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We’ve been over the bear gun thing time and again. We can argue black vs brown all day long. They are very different animals in size and temperament, but a dangerous animal is a dangerous animal. So bigger is better, no matter how you argue it.

If you are carrying a gun, carry MORE gun than you need for the task.

I don’t trust Taurus gun’s due to personal experiences, but if the OP’s gun shoots, I’ll take a 41 mag for the task over a 357 any day.
 
There has been a lot of back and forth and pontificating for sure...

But the results from actual encounters, including the one recently posted on this forum are pretty consistent...

Most centerfire handguns of reasonable caliber with good hits will stop attacks.
 
I carried my G20 in Yellowstone and slept as comfortably as possible with it loaded with 200 gr DoubleTap hardcast. I've since upgraded to a smaller G29. That combo has proven to bring down the biggest bear in Alaska as well as cape buffalo in Africa.

With the choices you have I'd carry the Smith 357 loaded with 200 gr hardcast bullets. Terminal performance and penetration will be nearly identical to the 10mm loads. I'd choose the 357 over the 41 simply because I trust the gun more. A 41 mag would have better looking numbers only if shot from a 6" or longer barrel. And that doesn't necessarily translate to better performance on the target.

I chose to carry the 10mm and leave both 357 and 44 mag revolvers at home for the simple reason that the Glocks are easier to carry. Yes, it is legal to carry in Yellowstone or SMNP if your home state permit is honored in Wyoming, Tennessee and or North Carolina. But with thousands of tourists around it is best kept out of sight. Most of them don't know it's legal and I'd rather avoid the issues. And while it is legal to carry in the parks, it is illegal to carry inside of any building or structure in the parks. Something to be careful about.

Bedtime in bear country. 15 rounds of 200 gr hardcast @1300 fps with a mounted light.

mill creek camping 023.JPG
 
The key is ammunition selection for the gun you choose against the biggest target you may face. Does the terminal ballistics of the bullet match the mission? In all cases, you'll need to figure out how much penetration is needed. You're probably going to need at least 20" for an attacking bear. People have succeeded with lighter calibers and I don't know what the "stats" about those are.

For the guns listed, the 686 is the best suited. But, I think it needs at least another inch of barrel.

  1. S&W 686+ 3" 357mag (7 shot)
  2. Taurus 415 2 1/2" 41mag (5 shot) -- Good caliber, gun--not so much. Upgrade to a Ruger or S&W.
  3. Springfield XDM compact 3.8" 45acp +P (9 +1 magazine) -- Barrel is a bit short. Even the Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman load seems too light for the purpose at 925 FPS.
 
I have only ever hiked around the Smokies. We did spot a couple of bears including a family of bears who came by the cabin condo we were staying at to eat the autumn decorations they would put each night. Mama of average size, a couple of cubs, and a story of a supposed papa who didn't come out much but was a monster.

I never felt the need to armor up too much. We hiked well traveled paths and were cautious. I have a little jingle bell on my vest to make us obvious, carried a decent can of bear spray on my hip and a S&W Shield in .45 with a reload. I carried hard cast in the gun, but honestly it was more for two legged critters over bears.

I would probably opt for the .357 of what is on your list. I would have gone with a .357, but at the time I didn't have a DA in the stable. A 686+ holds the same number of rounds as the Shield I was carrying (concealed 6+1 with 7 rounder in my pocket) and has more loading options and works fine on black bears.

If I were going out in an area with bigger animals, I think I would get a 10mm. I am planning a trip out west in the next 12-18 months. Im hoping to add a Glock 20 to the stable by then.
 
As a good friend of mine, with decades of hunting black bear in North Carolina once told me: if you think you’re a bad$&@, let me lock you in a room with a 50-lb black bear cub and we’ll see who comes out in worse condition...

I personally prefer to prepare for worst case scenarios, therefore I would opt for the biggest caliber you can competently shoot.
 
Frulk said:
The question I have is why conceal if you’re in the back country carrying for bears?

You might also want to read up on Yellowstone’s gun polices. It will get somewhat complicated if you draw down on a bear. Even in self defense.
Click to expand...
As compared to being mauled by that bear ?.

I would think that "better to be tried by 12" bumper sticker says it all.

If your body is found unarmed or with a holstered pistol,do you get a reward for not "drawing down ?".
"Sorry if this sounds snarky,,but not sure how else to ask this one !.
 
That's my neck of the woods, although I just travel through Yellowstone from ID to WY, I camp and hike in northern and southern areas of the Shoshone NF which along with Yellowstone has the highest concentration of Grizzlies in the lower 48 (last estimate I read was about 700...who knows how correct that is since I would guess they don't fill in their census forms on time).

When I'm hiking in that area which I do all the time, I normally carry a Beretta .40 with 200 gr flat nose hardcast Buffalo bore on my belt (primarily for use against small blacks, cougars, and any other critters that might cause problems). In addition, a.44 mag with 305 gr flat nose hard cast, but most importantly, a large can of Counter Assault bear spray. And before anyone makes some ludicrous statement about bear spray, please note that I have come across grizzlies three times in areas just east of Yellowstone. Twice I used bear spray and I'm typing with all my arms and legs so it worked. The third time was on the Sweetwater Bridge, about 20 miles east of Yellowstone and it was me, two very large dogs and a grizz; he wanted to go southbound, I was headed northbound; the dogs made him/her change their mind; thankfully.

Just travel hwy 14/16/20 from Cody to Yellowstone, note all the local fisherman in the Shoshone river and look at what they have on their belts. Usually a large caliber revolver on their strong side and a large can of bear spray on the other side. These are locals who live with these bears.

And knowing a lot of people who hike that area quite extensively, they all carry bear spray (large sized container of Counter Assault) and know of none of them becoming bear scat.

Now, if there is some grizz problems noted in the area such as a troublesome bear noted by the FS; I also carry in my truck a 12-gauge loaded with Brenekke 600 gr Black Magic rounds.

And using bear spray means NO paperwork, cross examinations from rangers and actually a nice feeling that you were able to walk out without having to kill a great animal who's home you entered. But having a large caliber for that just in case situation that allows you to go home is ok too.

I'll also note, when hiking in that area; NOTHING; considered self-defense related, is concealed. Easy and quick access to any items noted.
 
The OP in the original post stated he would be "hiking in bear country". Hiking to me in bear country means you're sometimes miles away from parking lots, park amenities, buildings etc. and on a trail which you will (at best) see other people on infrequently. That's what prompted my original response to ask why 'conceal' under these conditions. Seems to me it would only slow you down. Maybe where the OP is bear country has a lot more human traffic in it than the bear country I'm in and he's considerate of other hikers.

At the risk of turning this into a Yellowstone thread (not my intention). That's a unique situation to carry in. Kill/wound a bear just about anywhere else and you have a chance of making the local news. Have a bear encounter in Yellowstone and regardless of the situation you'll more than likely make national news (re: the recent California woman that was gored), receive exceptional scrutiny of your action(s) and might face some very expensive legal ramifications.

Again, just to clarify...It's situationally driven..it will go down a lot differently if you used bear avoidance techniques (kept a clean camp, didn't have food in your tent, made noise in heavy cover like willows, hung your food etc.) and got into a situation were you were forced to use a gun vs. doing something irresponsible and killing or wounding an animal. My point was only an observation in case someone didn't know what rules applied in YS.

I'm NOT advocating going with bear spray as a first and only option under ALL circumstances but that you SHOULD have it as an option. Only saying in that particular park the level of scrutiny of your (and possibly your parties) actions will be intense. I will submit that it would look favorably if you had a non-lethal option at hand even if you chose not to use it.

When I'm on foot in bear country....Pioneer Mts/ Montana, Salt Range and Wind Rivers/Wyoming, High Uintas Wilderness, Utah, Ruby Mt's Nevada, Selkirk's in Idaho etc. I'm carrying one of these four .44 mag/.45 Colt options with my 300gr + cast reloads (except for the 329PD). The spray is ALWAYS on the trip. I don't want to second guess myself if having had a non-lethal measure might have saved the life of one of these animals.

pjrpNz5.jpg
 
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I first would like to thank everyone for their vote and comments. I would like to try to clear up a few questions/comments.

I will have my S&W 442 in my pocket. I normally carry it or my LCP2 as my EDC. This will be my first option for 2 legged threats. I train with them for SD and would probably go there first.

I like concealed carry, sometimes I will be in areas with lots of people and sometimes nobody for miles. I try to carry the same way all the time for consistency.

I do live in SC now - a few bears there. I lived in IL before SC for 4 years - not many bears. Before IL, I lived in WI 50 years - good numbers of bears there. I came in close contact with bears in Central and Northern WI, but was never threatened.

Hiking in the Smokies: There are many bears in the traveled areas this is what makes them a bigger threat than they used to be. People feeding them, don't take care of their trash, and are just being plain stupid - not giving them the space the deserve.

Hiking Yellowstone: I am happy to say both times I have visited the park I have seen both black bears and brown bears. I like seeing the wildlife but give them space.

Bear Spray - thanks for the reminder I do need to pick -up a new can. My wife carries spray. She is not real comfortable yet carrying a firearm.
The spray is a good thing to have as mentioned for some of the legal concerns and has worked in many cases.

Please continue the comments and thanks again.
 
https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/local/2015/07/11/south-carolina-bear-safety/29928617/

GREENVILLE – Although there has never been a recorded bear attack on a human in South Carolina, wildlife officials and park managers are reminding people that bears do live in the Upstate, which borders the Western North Carolina mountains where recent human-bear encounters have occurred.

Tammy Wactor, wildlife biologist with the South Carolina Department of Natural Resources, said there is an estimated 800-1,000 black bears across South Carolina, with most found in the more heavily forested and mountainous Upstate region, and a smaller population of 300-400 bears in the coastal areas.

Although that is much smaller than the estimated 7,000-8,000 black bears populating North Carolina, Wactor said with more people moving into the Upstate, especially on the edges of the forest, a bear-human conflict could happen.

“The historic habitat of black bears is northern Oconee, Pickens and Greenville counties, but they have been expanding out of that historic range for years,” Wactor said. “It’s common to see them throughout the Upstate, including Anderson, Spartanburg and Laurens, and occasionally in Abbebille County. People have been expanding into the northern part of the state over last 20 years, so there are no isolated forest areas anymore for the bears. There is a lot of urban interface - people want to live in the mountains.”
 
WisBorn said:
Hiking Yellowstone: I am happy to say both times I have visited the park I have seen both black bears and brown bears.
Click to expand...
There's plenty of "brown," as well as cinnamon and blond Black Bears in Yellowstone and Grand Teton (right next door) National Parks. Did you see any Grizzlies?
Sorry, I'm not trying to be a wise guy. It's just that there's a lot of people that think Black Bears are black, while Grizzlies are brown, and that is simply not true. Not that you couldn't have very well seen a few Grizzlies in Yellowstone - there's something like 800 of them in and around Yellowstone, and a bunch more just a little north of there, in and around Glacier National Park.
That said, I carried a heavily loaded Ruger 45 Colt or a heavily loaded Taurus 41 Magnum (along with bear spray) for bear protection when my wife and I were into backpacking. I didn't carry concealed though - didn't see a reason for having my handgun concealed when my wife and I were 30 miles into the Idaho wilderness. There are both Black Bears and Grizzlies in Idaho too BTW, along with wolves and mountain lions.
However, I can very well see the reasoning behind your wanting to carry concealed if you're occasionally going to be running into other people on your hikes. As a matter of fact, running into other people all the time is one of the main things my wife and I disliked about the few hikes we did in Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Parks - where I did carry concealed. But as far as that goes - almost every time we saw a bear (either Black or Griz) in Yellowstone or Grand Teton National Park, there was a bunch of gawkers standing around staring, and getting entirely too close as far as we were concerned.
 
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.308 Norma said:
There's plenty of "brown," as well as cinnamon and blond Black Bears in Yellowstone and Grand Teton (right next door) National Parks. Did you see any Grizzlies?
Sorry, I'm not trying to be a wise guy. It's just that there's a lot of people that think Black Bears are black, while Grizzlies are brown, and that is simply not true. Not that you couldn't have very well seen a few Grizzlies in Yellowstone - there's something like 800 of them in and around Yellowstone, and a bunch more just a little north of there, in and around Glacier National Park.
That said, I carried a heavily loaded Ruger 45 Colt or a heavily loaded Taurus 41 Magnum (along with bear spray) for bear protection when my wife and I were into backpacking. I didn't carry concealed though - didn't see a reason for having my handgun concealed when my wife and I were 30 miles into the Idaho wilderness. There are both Black Bears and Grizzlies in Idaho too BTW, along with wolves and mountain lions.
However, I can very well see the reasoning behind your wanting to carry concealed if you're occasionally going to be running into other people on your hikes. As a matter of fact, running into other people all the time is one of the main things my wife and I disliked about the few hikes we did in Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Parks - where I did carry concealed. But as far as that goes - almost every time we saw a bear (either Black or Griz) in Yellowstone or Grand Teton National Park, there was a bunch of gawkers standing around staring, and getting entirely too close as far as we were concerned.
Click to expand...
I understand that black bears can be several different colors. I did referred to the Grizzlies as brown bears which are a subspecies. Thanks for your response

I found an interesting video about bear species on YouTube. I thought it was worth the time.
 
I choose the S&W 686 because of recoil. If the gun chambered in .41 magnum had been a S&W model 57 with a 6 inch barrel, that would have been my first choice. I will pass on shooting a .41 mag out of anything lighter and I like the .41 magnum.

Jim
 
Of the cartridges you list, I favor the .41 magnum. However, given the choice of handguns, I'd take the 686 for its capacity and longer barrel. I'd load it with full power hard cast SWCs.

Were it me, however, I'd prefer to open carry a 5.5-inch Blackhawk in .45 Colt.
 
IMO, none of the guns offered are adequate for griz/browns. All are adequate in most likelihood for black bears (even if they are brown, cinnamon, spotted or whatever). My current handgun carry in the lower 48 for bear protection is my old Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt with full on Buffalo Bore +P loads. Nowadays I am considering a Glock or similar in 10mm because truthfully not all bad guys are wearing fur and the 10mm double stack might be handy. But, two years ago when I managed an Alaska hiking/camping trip (not hunting) I open carried my Marlin SBL Guide Gun with Buffalo Bore +P 430 grain hard cast. And you know, when you start moving into magnum revolvers, some are nearly as big and heavy as the compact Marlin.
 
3Crows said:
IMO, none of the guns offered are adequate for griz/browns. All are adequate in most likelihood for black bears (even if they are brown, cinnamon, spotted or whatever). My current handgun carry in the lower 48 for bear protection is my old Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt with full on Buffalo Bore +P loads. Nowadays I am considering a Glock or similar in 10mm because truthfully not all bad guys are wearing fur and the 10mm double stack might be handy. But, two years ago when I managed an Alaska hiking/camping trip (not hunting) I open carried my Marlin SBL Guide Gun with Buffalo Bore +P 430 grain hard cast. And you know, when you start moving into magnum revolvers, some are nearly as big and heavy as the compact Marlin.
Click to expand...

Which Buffalo Bore 45 Colt load do you use when carrying for bear?
 
Sour Kraut said:
Which Buffalo Bore 45 Colt load do you use when carrying for bear?
Click to expand...

Oh, let me finish what I should have said more fully. None of those (as mentioned by the OP) are adequate and neither is the .45 LC, it is just that it is less inadequate (than those mentioned by the OP) with the BB +P.

But to answer your question:

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=38

And further I will add I am not a brown bear expert but I am somewhat familiar with the .45LC and I favor the argument of big holes are good and bigger holes are gooder! And in the lower 48 I have also used these for protection and hunting. A big ol'hog was so close I could have touched him with my rifle barrel so I pulled my Ruger and popped him and he was knocked flat on his arse impressively, HSL BL:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001467161

Milder and less painful than the BB stuff but will still knock the stuffins out of critters even if bears are not the worry.
 
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