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Concealed Handgun Permit Holders Kill 7 Police, 44 Private Citizens Over Two-Years

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Titan6, Jul 20, 2009.

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  1. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    Always consider the source.

    This lovely work opens with:
     
  2. Maelstrom

    Maelstrom Member

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    They're so cute when they're panicked.
     
  3. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    Assuming they're not outright lying or distorting as they have been caught in the past, VPC is cherry picking stats.

    IIRC, roughly 50-60 policemen are killed in the line of duty by gunfire per year. (Yes, it really is that few...lots of hoopla over 50 guys, when you consider how many civilians get it.)

    Let's figure since they needed a range of 2 years to get 7 permit holders, that this is 7 out of 110.

    That means that of the police are being shot 16 times more by people without permits than with.

    Roughly 8,000 people a year are killed by handguns. And the VPC can only find 44 shot by permit holders in a 2 year period?

    Pathetic.

    So, to continue, that means that people are being killed 364 times more by people without permits than with.
     
  4. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    You really need to read the report. Many of the people are accused of murder and not yet convicted. Of course McLendon is on there and he accounts for 11 by himself.
     
  5. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Are you saying the incidents are fabricated? While VPC may be the summary article, the incidents I checked match their descriptions. In other words, they appear to be reporting correct information. You may not like it, but that doesn't make it wrong.
     
  6. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    *Anything* and *everything* coming from the VPC must be verified. They've fabricated and twisted stuff beyond recognition before. This doesn't mean that they also haven't used real facts, when it suits them.

    Given their track record, they completely deserve not to be taken seriously until every footnote has been authenticated.
     
  7. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    If a person has not been convicted of killing someone in America they are innocent until proven guilty. At least that used to be the law, I think.

    They are also counting those that killed people with rifles if they had a CCL. But, yes the math works out to roughly one in 600 killings are committed by a person with a CCL.
     
  8. jnuts

    jnuts Member

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  9. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

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    The VPC can never be trusted, the spin on anything they cite is horrible. Statistics ususaly very flawed. They cite debunked studies for years.
    Anything that actualy did happen is exaggerated by them and exploited by being mentioned in so many different ways each time it sounds like they are refering to a seperate incident even as they re-use the same specific example over and over.
     
  10. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    If you are going to commit suicide you don't really need the CHL do you? Just buy the gun and do it. I know this runs well counter to the argument that having the gun in the home "increases your risk of suicide" but there are no hard numbers either way.
     
  11. doc2rn

    doc2rn Member

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    wonder how many of the 7 officers where out of uniform
     
  12. billybob44

    billybob44 Member

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    The stats that never show up

    The stories that are never part of public record are the amount of times that a felony in progress is stopped by an armed citizen. These happen many times daily and hardly ever are reported. Think of it people-has it ever happened to you-it has to me on several occasions. This situation probably happens thousands of times per year, and is the reason that the American Citizen MUST retain the right to carry concealed firearms.:fire:
     
  13. DennisB

    DennisB Member

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    Really?!
     
  14. SHusky57

    SHusky57 Member

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    Does anyone else think this is bass ackwards? I understand Republicans are generally pro-gun, but isn't the point of the Republican party small government and state's rights? Creating a national CCW system and going over the states is being proposed by a Republican? And a Democrat is going to filibuster it?

    I know it's slightly off-topic, not trying to start a political thread, but strange things are happening in the country.

    And 44 homicides over 2 years by CCW holders = 22 homicides per year average. Consider the national homicide rate is something like 15,000-16,000 per year and CCW holders account for .0015% of all murders, or 1.5 of every thousand. To put that in perspective, 40,000 people die in automobiles every year, 15,000 by homicide, and 22 by CCW holder. I still think swimming pools are more deadly than CCW holders, but I can't recall the statistic off the top of my head, and I don't believe in pulling them out of the butt.
     
  15. noskilz

    noskilz Member

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    3 of the 7 LEO's were killed by Richard Poplawski, the worthless nutjob who was terrorizing his mother. That definitely hurts the stats.
     
  16. aquapong

    aquapong Member

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    Good...push this so they have to fillibuster instead of pushing the healthcare and cap and trade crap. The Dems are for states' rights when it suits them.
     
  17. John Wayne

    John Wayne Member

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    I wonder if they're counting justifiable shootings of "private citizens" as well. I mean, if a guy comes at you with a tire iron and you shoot him to protect your life, you *technically* killed a "private citizen."

    Taking that a step further, if you consider all policemen as CWP holders, you can count all incidents where off-duty police officers shot violent criminals as "shootings of private citizens."

    It's quite easy to see how these statistics can be skewed, but the sad part is most people won't read beyond the title.
     
  18. Monkeyleg

    Monkeyleg Member

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    Here's an example of how the VPC distorts data, something I strongly suspect they've done with this "study."

    Several years back, the Texas Department of Public Safety posted numbers online for arrests and convictions of permit holders for any crimes more serious than a traffic ticket. The convictions were listed in no particular order and were not categorized.

    The VPC took these numbers and created a "study." They created a class of offenses they called "weapons offenses." Into this category they inserted the number of permit holders arrested for discharging firearms within city limits, carrying in a place prohibited by the concealed weapons law, and failure to display a carry permit.

    The last two offenses are ones that pretty much only permit holders would be arrested for. Thus, the VPC was able to state that in Texas, permit holders are 66% more likely to be arrested for "weapons offenses" than the general public.

    It was because of the VPC's distortions that the Texas DPS started publishing arrest rates for the general public alongside permit holders.
     
  19. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Member

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    They are missing important statistics such as how many lives were spared and murders prevented by CHL holders. Did they bring down any planes with their .50 calibers like the VPC warned?
    Heaven forbid the VPC ever does an article on automobiles or swimming pools.
    I think if they studied an equal number of off duty law enforcement officers they'd find similar results. Anytime deadly force is involved people tend to get hurt or killed.
    But of course they did. What more authoritative source than the blatantly anti-gun media? Hang em before the fingerprints dry.
     
  20. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    On the police killings, I read that it said concealed weapons holder, but I wonder if that statistic includes police suicides? Police suicide is not a new phenomenon.
     
  21. Diamondback6

    Diamondback6 Member

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    This is also a group that counts 19- and 20-yer-old gangbangers as victims of "Gun Crimes Against Children".

    How many of those 44 shootings came out with "Not Guilty By Reason of Self Defense?" Or would they have it be skip the trial, you're guilty as soon as you're charged and off to the gallows?
     
  22. akodo

    akodo Member

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    that means that 1 person wasn't even killed with a gun! Why would you even include that in the stats?

    Also, here's how they work it. A person is involved in a hunting accident using his shotgun and another person is killed. Do you have a CCW permit? Yes. Good, one more 'gun death' to put in the tally.

    Of course, this type of thinking totally skews results.

    Further, they look at people who are charged. We all know here that people are often charged as a knee jerk reaction, and later the charges are dropped...or beaten cleanly in court. It is just to bump up their numbers that they use 'charged'
     
  23. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    From Gunfacts 5.1, available from gunfacts.info

    An interesting statistic is this one,
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2009
  24. Dr. Fresh

    Dr. Fresh Member

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    That's all well and fine, but does anyone have links to actual numbers? For example, I'd like to see total CCP holders by state as well as the number of crimes (ideally broken down by type) committed by CCP holders.
     
  25. HKUSP45C

    HKUSP45C Member

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    Further, if you look at the data they're using:
    One nutjob killed three cops
    One nut job killed ten citizens
    One nut job killed thirteen citizens

    Three incidents in two years account for nearly HALF of all of the "data."

    I still feel dramatically safer in a room full of CHL holders than in just about ANY other venue full of ANY other "category" of people.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2009
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