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Considered suppressed handgun for night stand?

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by el Godfather, Jan 16, 2014.

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  1. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

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    So you won't be using a gun either for HD? I don't understand.

    Didn't say that. Just said I don't plan on using a pistol with an expensive (given the registration and tax process) can for HD.

    I prefer shotguns for the HD role anyway, and one of my typical $200 used 870 Express guns is the same price as the tax stamp for the can, not to mention the pistol itself. Oldphart that I am, my carry gun is still a S&W 642, and revolvers don't generally work well with cans...
     
  2. scaatylobo

    scaatylobo Member

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    Telekinesis = "9mm 147gr ammo is subsonic as long as it is standard pressure. I hear you can also get 158gr bullets that sound great, but I've only seen FMJs that heavy."
    __________________


    I fully understand that [ it was my issue duty round for a while ] BUT that is not the new high end 9 MM stuff I was referring to.

    The new stuff is not all +P but it is not subsonic either.

    I wont name brands as I am not selling for any company,but the newer stuff is VERY expanding and I would take a risk and say it will do just fine even compared to the venerable .45 ACP.

    My concern is that the .45 has the subsonic advantage alreay.

    Hope y'all get my point.
     
  3. Shawn Dodson

    Shawn Dodson Member

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    You have small kids. If you were to hear something go bump in the night are you going to reach for your gun first or simply holler, "What's going on?! Who's making that noise?!"

    "Revealing your exact location" is pretty low on the tactical no-no list for home defense, IMO. A verbal challenge, "Who's there?!", to establish your presence and to identify friend or foe to eliminate the possibility of a tragic mistake should override any fear of giving away your exact position.
     
  4. Eyesac

    Eyesac Member

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    I'm truly not trying to start a fight. But no matter what I do, I can't get my pistol & can to run good enough for HD. I get so much soot in my gun/barrel/chamber from my pistol/can combo after one mag, it stops wanting to chamber a loaded round with out a little push (maybe 1 rd out of each mag). I mean, I suppose I could get a different recoil spring and have my chamber reamed out, etc., and pick up some reliability, but I think my experience is more common than not. I hear a lot of people saying that they're pistol/can combo is reliable, but I've never seen one in person, I mean, do you think you're combo is reliable enough that you could shoot a USPSA match (hypothetically) and experience the same reliability as no can?
    I'm not suggesting a typical HD scenario involves 150rd and mags in the dirt, shooting weak handed around corners, but I just don't consider silenced pistols to be HD reliable... IMO
     
  5. torqem

    torqem member

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    The can's a bad idea. The ear protection is better.

    .45 subsonics are nothing special, guys, believe it. you can get plus p 230 gr jhp's, which are 950 fps from a 5" barrel, and the might be up above the threshold at which .45 jhp's expand reliably (where it counts). 800 fps doesn't get it, for a fact.

    The can does nothing for enhancing your hearing, but the electronic muffs do. Also, the can does nothing for the sound of your attacker's shots. As I said, but everyone ignores, 1911 style actions need the can to weigh 4 ozs or less, or else you gotta have that big recoil-booster clunk. If the can is specifically designed with that weight in mind, it can reduce the blast a lot, but it will still be pretty loud, indoors.

    most .45 cans weigh more like 1 full pounds. What happens then is that the barrel can't tilt as it should, unlocking itself from the slide. If the barrel won't/can't tilt, then the slide is inhibited from cycling. The Beretta is more forgiving, because its barrel does not reciprocate, it just tilts. Also, the smaller bore of the 9mm, as vs the .45 and the reduced amount of powder (ie, gases result) mean that a 9mm can may be smaller than a .45 can, while remaining just as quiet. So, if you want to do this, get a 9mm beretta, not a 1911, or Glock .45 or Sig .45.

    If you can afford a $600 suppressor and the $200 tax, why can't you also afford $150 ear protection and a$300 armored vest, hmm? If you're going to run and get a gun (since you can't ccw the canned .45) then why don't you also have time to slip on the ear protection and the armor?
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
  6. Blackstone

    Blackstone Member

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    Someone mentioned early in the thread that suppressors reduce recoil. It's not an inherent property of them, is it? I figured it was through the use of subsonic ammunition that reduces recoil a little.
     
  7. Averageman

    Averageman Member

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    Perhaps it is a matter of the wight distribution being different, recoiling forces would remain the same as far as energy, but be felt differently because of the added weight at the muzzle.
     
  8. The_Next_Generation

    The_Next_Generation Member

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    Averageman, there is one factor of recoil that you are neglecting.

    The force from the exiting gasses can really contribute to the amount of felt-recoil. Brakes and comps redirect gases to the sides to be effective. In order for a suppressor to actually "suppress" it must slow down the exiting gases. By allowing the gases to expand over a longer period of time, felt recoil is reduced.
     
  9. torqem

    torqem member

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    The gases push forward on the baffles, reducing recoil and having a lb of can hanging off of the muzzle will reduce both recoil and muzzle jump.
     
  10. Inebriated

    Inebriated Member

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    Unless Helen Keller has taken to breaking and entering, your location is most likely known by whoever it is that you have found, identified, and fired upon.

    If you care about hearing during the middle of an indoor gunfight (important), get electronic ear pro. A suppressor helps when YOU shoot, but not when the guy 8 yards away shoots back.
     
  11. hartcreek

    hartcreek member

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    I was involved in an indoor shooting a few months ago. Three rounds from a .40 cal were fired. I was standing a few feet from the officer doing the shooting. it sounded like a popgun going off.

    Neighbors never even heard the shots they just wondered why there were five squad cars on the street at 2:00 AM.

    I started my niece and nephew shooting 22s when they were three. I started my great nephew when he was three. He now shoots a H&R 32 magnum by himself with good control and has shot a .308 using sandbags with no problems which is pretty good as he only weighs 35 pounds.

    Get you kids shooting and the noise if it happens will not freak them out.

    If you like the idea of a suppressor.......pay for the tax stamp.

    Do not be worried about temporarily surrendering evidence as who only has one handgun......surely not anyone reading these posts.
     
  12. JustinJ

    JustinJ Member

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    In self defense shootings the question is not if you actually shot the intruder. The question is whether or not you were justified in doing so. One huge variable can be the distance at which the intruder was shot. If you use a can and conceal this fact the forensic evidence will highly contradict the distance you say the intruder was at when shot. Now they see you as a liar.


    My .45 Osprey runs like a champ on my Glock 21sf. One malfunction so far out of about 500 rounds.
     
  13. JRH6856

    JRH6856 Member

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    They might be able to prove that the confession is false and you are not the shooter. Which could be important in locales where firearms must be registered to a particular person. Your wife shoots with your gun. The shooting is SD, but is illegal because the gun is not registered to her, it's registered to you. So you confess. ISTR a case like this n NYC.
     
  14. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Member

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    If you hang 12-20oz off the end of your muzzle, you are going to have less muzzle flip - even before you consider most suppressors are super effective muzzle brakes with a can around the outside.

    However, I know with rifles that the extra length and weight on the end of the muzzle can make handling noticeably more difficult so that the effect is moot. I have less blast, recoil, or muzzle flip but it is harder to hold the muzzle on target in the first place.
     
  15. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    So basically then what you are saying is that expense of the item for self defense does come into play for you specifically because it might be used in a SD shooting and that you would lose access to it for a period of time. Got it.
     
  16. Tirod

    Tirod Member

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    The expense of buying a suppressor is an obstacle. The obvious answer is to apply for a stamp and build your own. It can be done.

    In terms of what the OP had in mind, the result would still be a reduced report and absence of flash. It doesn't have to be a $1000 suppressor - the ones sold in Europe run as little as $40 for a .22. There are plenty of web posts that can direct your construction and the parts would cost even less.

    Just get the stamp. That is the obstacle, not the price of the suppressor. And don't worry about the jocks who would make you a laughingstock, their ego is more important than your hearing protection and not alarming your family. That is why American suppressors cost so much, the dudes are willing to pay for them because that makes them better than somebody who won't spend it. It's a club and some wouldn't join if just anybody could.

    Anyway, it's been discussed in more detail: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=612730

    You have a right to own a suppressor, and you have the right not to be soaked by the system or society who try to make it out as an elitist barrier. The legal point - it's no different that making your own firearm at home, except the NFA got loaded down with the requirement for a stamp.

    Frankly, it should be every shooter's duty to make one because you can.

    Get it? "Can?"

    :eek:
     
  17. JustinJ

    JustinJ Member

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    Or, American suppressors cost what they do because the engineering, materials and associated regulatory costs aren't cheap. Yeah, anybody can throw together a cheap can that weighs a ton, is prone to baffle strikes and will likely corrode or fall apart but some of us want higher quality than what we have the means to construct at home. Not to mention that few of us have the know how, tools and parts readily available to build a silencer with the needed Nielsen device for use on non-fixed barrel pistols. Not to mention the expertise needed to construct one from the lighter exotic metals so that it doesn't feel like there is a brick strapped on to the end of the barrel. I'd love to build a can and may tackle it someday but after spending the time and money needed for a tax stamp it makes much more sense for me to just buy one.
     
  18. taliv

    taliv Moderator Staff Member

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    i'm not saying all of them are, but mine really is. and i have a couple 3 friends with identical setups and none has reported any malfunctions with the FNP45 tactical/osprey combo. it might make a difference that they seemed to be designed to work with a can. i'd expect the HK tactical and other pistols sold with threaded barrels to be reasonably reliable. and if my holster would accommodate a suppressor i would shoot matches with it.
     
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