Considering a progressive press.

[CrankyCraig]

I have a Dillon 550c. Not as fast as a 650 Dillon or Hornady LNL but caliber changes are quick and easy. Since it does not have auto index there are no timing issues. One of the downsides of a 550 is that it is 4 stations and not a station for a powder check die. I have my 550 setup so I can visually check each powder charge. Something I would do anyway even if I had a powder check die.

I never primed on any press until I started using my 550. The priming set up works very well.

I have been eying that Dillon to me it seems like it would be much faster than the turret press. I kinda like the idea of manual index . How hard is it to go from large primer to small?

 

[DRAINSMITH]

These are 4 Hornady Ammo-plants. In this photo they all have Lee dies.
Now I do not recommend any press to anyone. But I would like to put in "My 2 cents"

I would not have any press that requires another company to make it a full progressive. If you notice the Hornady Has the press, case feeder, and bullet feeder as well as a deluxe control panel.

Now I have my press running faster than I can pull the handle. My bullet feeders run faster than I can pull the handle, My case feeder runs faster than I can pull the handle with the exception of the large case feeder. But it runs just as fast as the Dillons.

Now if you notice I said that in the photo all the dies are Lee, well they are now Hornady. Because I have had too many Dillon owners bragging that there Dillons are "Beter" than the Hornady. So I have had a challenge for the last 3 1/2 years that I will bet my 100% Hornady aginst Any 100% Dillon. So far it's all talk. Or maybe they realize Dillon lacks a bullet feeder an will not stand a chance.

Now, if you just want a stand alone press. either Hornady or Dillon will make your 600 round monthly requirement in an hour. But the Hornady will be faster. Now. if you decide to add a case feeder to both, it is a wash. But if you add the bullet feeder to the Hornady it will take you a little more than half an hour.

Now if I were you I wouldn't buy a progressive with the number of rounds that you use. I would get another Lee turret and a stool that will fit your wife's butt. Makes good bonding time. The range is just too loud for that. I have been married to my bride for 42 years.

 

[solman]

Thank you.


solman, I have reloaded a lot of rounds on several Pro 1000s (several hundred thousand rounds) and helped set up new reloaders on Pro 1000s successfully without the "dreaded" primer feed issue. As well illustrated in the THR Pro 1000 support thread, there are some considerations to make Pro 1000 operate smoothly and reliably - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...lutions-no-bashing.507454/page-3#post-7877744

• Fiocchi, PMC, Tula and other "Metric" sized primers won't seat as reliably as CCI/Magtech/Winchester "English/Standard" sized primers. These "Metric" primers in once-fired or tighter primer pocket cases like 9mm S&B/RWS are especially problematic. If swapping out primers with CCI/Winchester primers fix primer feeding/seating issue, problem is not with primer attachment but primer brand used.

• Pro 1000 center hex rod (Lee calls it "action rod") MUST BE lubricated for smooth reliable index operation of shell plate which also extends the life of the small nylon hex gear (a consumable item that must be replaced when worn or shell plate won't index properly). I usually put a drop of oil (any that I have on the bench or motor oil I use for cars) on my finger tip to lubricate the top and bottom of hex rod and cycle the ram lever until indexing of shell plate is smooth.

• Shell plate index timing not properly adjusted is primary cause for primers not feeding and seating reliably on a new Pro 1000. Shell plate should click into station before carrier reaches the bottom of the ram travel.

• Powder granules falling into the primer attachment opening on top is second common cause for primers not feeding and seating reliably on a new Pro 1000. A simple cover made from paper or plastic to catch the powder granules will prevent this problem.

• Primer seating rod not dropping all the way down is third common cause for primers not feeding and seating reliably on a Pro 1000 (which is caused by powder granules falling into the attachment opening and falling around the seating rod). If primer tilts on the rod, bottom of shell plate will rub on the tilted primer and won't index properly (See picture below). If force is applied on the ram at this point, tilted primer will gouge the primer attachment surface and subsequent primers won't slide smoothly.

Primer tilting on seating rod that did not drop fully due to fallen powder granules at the bottom of the seating rod hole.

Primer fed properly without tilting from seating rod dropping fully below attachment surface

• Gouged primer attachment surface is common cause for primers not sliding smoothly to feed and seat reliably. Gouged surface can be "burnished" with folded copy paper after attachment is carefully pried apart. If gouge/damage to the attachment surface cannot be repaired by "burnishing" with folded copy paper, the attachment needs to be replaced for reliable sliding of primers.

These are the "tinkering" I have done with Pro 1000 primer attachment which resolved the "finicky" primer feeding issue every time provided shell plate was installed tight and primer attachment was kept full of primers.

We have had several THR members use the Pro 1000s out of the box and by following the check list we developed have consistently avoided the "dreaded" primer feed issue. Unfortunately, many reloaders start out on progressive reloading on Pro 1000 lacking experience/patience and are quick to blame the press when it was operator unfamiliarity with press or operator error.

I am sure there have been lots of work arounds for the Lee primer feed issues. One of the major problems I had was the primers stacking up at the ramp in the feeder tray. You had to watch it like a hawk and keep slapping it from time to time to keep them flowing. My initial experience goes back way before internet days so you were on your own to make it work. I am not knocking Lee they actually got me into reloading. I would never have spent the money for a Dillon or Hornady as a first press with no reloading experience and not knowing if I would like it. At times you could really crank out the ammo on the Lee progressive. I just got tired of the glitches and for me it made sense to move on. I never had shell plate or some of the other problems you mentioned. Mostly alway the primer feed issues. Any spilled powder got in the way as well and there is always some powder around the shell plate during reloading. This happens with all the progressives I have used.
If I still had the press I would be interested to try some of the suggestions you mentioned.
Solman

 

[Blue68f100]

LNL-AP user here. Mine is one of the early ones converted to the EzEject base plate. Mine is 10 yrs old and still going strong. I do have the brass feeder on mine, but I like to peak at the powder so I set the bullet manually. The LNL-AP is a very simple press in design. I only know of 2 items on the press that is plastic, all in non critical areas. Dillon has a bunch and some in critical areas. This is the cause of setting off primers with the Dillon, mainly the 650. Been that way since released, and still has not been addressed to correct. Like any machine, maintain it and never a problem. You never force anything on AP, Bad things can happen. I've had very few problems with the primer system on the LNL-AP. But like every thing else it MUST be setup and adj properly. I have not had to touch mine in years. I've adj a few friends machines and they have not needed to touch theirs since.

All of these AP work fine if they are adj properly. You can take the most expensive machine and it it's not adj and setup right it will not run smooth. As with any thing mechanical you need to under stand the machine on how it works in order to make the right adjustments. With the www and forums you can find fixes for most any problem you may run into.

 

[Doublehelix]

Love my XL650.

I would do as others have suggested and spend some time on YouTube watching videos of your top 2 or 3 choices. This should hep you decide as you watch them in action.

 

[Bang!]

View attachment 776332
These are 4 Hornady Ammo-plants. In this photo they all have Lee dies.
Now I do not recommend any press to anyone. But I would like to put in "My 2 cents"

I would not have any press that requires another company to make it a full progressive. If you notice the Hornady Has the press, case feeder, and bullet feeder as well as a deluxe control panel.

Now I have my press running faster than I can pull the handle. My bullet feeders run faster than I can pull the handle, My case feeder runs faster than I can pull the handle with the exception of the large case feeder. But it runs just as fast as the Dillons.

Now if you notice I said that in the photo all the dies are Lee, well they are now Hornady. Because I have had too many Dillon owners bragging that there Dillons are "Beter" than the Hornady. So I have had a challenge for the last 3 1/2 years that I will bet my 100% Hornady aginst Any 100% Dillon. So far it's all talk. Or maybe they realize Dillon lacks a bullet feeder an will not stand a chance.

Now, if you just want a stand alone press. either Hornady or Dillon will make your 600 round monthly requirement in an hour. But the Hornady will be faster. Now. if you decide to add a case feeder to both, it is a wash. But if you add the bullet feeder to the Hornady it will take you a little more than half an hour.

Now if I were you I wouldn't buy a progressive with the number of rounds that you use. I would get another Lee turret and a stool that will fit your wife's butt. Makes good bonding time. The range is just too loud for that. I have been married to my bride for 42 years.

The ‘market’ doesn’t consider the LnL AP reliable enough to make an auto drive for it. Any ammo manufacturers use AP commercially?

Geez, I will argue the point with anyone that you are the NUMERO UNO Hornady fan. Nothing wrong with enjoying your hobby.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I traded a Ruger SP101 and $40 at a Scheels Allsport for a Dillon 550b and a set of carbide 45 acp dies about two years ago.

Once I got it set up and my dies set I found it pretty easy to use. Even sorting brass just before loading, I can easily crank out 200-300 rounds in an evening.

It's the only press I've used but I like it. I have pretty limited time because I work a lot and am working on my home. So I find the simplicity and trouble free operation appealing, despite the price.

If I shot really high volumes of one cartridge, I'd maybe think about a 650 in addition. Don't need it now though.

 

[Dale shaver]

Dies are interchangeable with different progressive reloaders. I have Dillon, RCBS, Hornady, and Lee dies and they all work in Dillon and RCBS progressive reloaders I use. So it goes back to how much money you want to spend. All the reloaders I have used work just fine just some are more than others. Compare dies these days. When I first started reloading in 2008 a brand new RCBS die set cost about 22 bucks. You can’t find one for less than 45 theses days. So I tend to buy Lee when it comes to brand new. Anyway, cost is usually what I look into first

 

[nettlle]

I have been eying that Dillon to me it seems like it would be much faster than the turret press. I kinda like the idea of manual index . How hard is it to go from large primer to small?

It's easy to change primer size. The manual index isn't a big deal. My left and rests on the bullet tray and after placing the bullet in the case and my thumb is already there to index. Caliber changeover on a Dillon 550 is probably the quickest and easiest of anything out there. Although advertised rates are much faster I can easily reload 100 rounds in twenty minutes. That's the rate I enjoy reloading at although I could go faster.

I'm a long time single stage/turret press user and after reading about case feeder/press timing issues on AP presses I took a simpler path with the 550. Although the 550 is not super sonic fast it's rock solid steady. It simply works. Many may say otherwise but I consider the Dillon powder measure and automatic priming system on the 550 about as close to perfect as one can get.

 

[Hondo 60]

I've got 3 presses.
2 Dillon 550s & a Lee Breech Lock single stage.

I love all three, they each serve very well for their intended purpose.
If one of them broke, I'd definitely replace it (with the same).

 

[Nature Boy]

Here’s a guy selling 2 Dillon 650s. I have no affiliation with the seller. Just passing along

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/selling-dillon-xl-650-presses.3944530/

 

[LiveLife]

Asking $1900.

Buyer pays shipping, accept money order or personel check. Will ship once funds clear.
This is my first attempt at posting on this site.

"will ship once funds clear" ... right. I will not send $1900 to a new stranger member with a "1" post count.

That's why THR has a rule that new members must participate in forum discussion "X" number of times before allowed to use "Buy/Sell/Trade" forums.

The other forum should adopt similar rules or risk getting their members scammed.

 

[Bang!]

I am uncomfortable sending $1900 to a new stranger member with a "1" post count. That's why THR has a rule that new members must participate in forum discussion "X" number of times before allowed to use "Buy/Sell/Trade" forums.

The other forum should adopt similar rules or risk getting their members scammed.

+1 on this. I was about to post same thing.

 

[LiveLife]

Changed "uncomfortable" to "will not send" to add emphasis.

 

[ray15]

My wife and I shoot around 600 rounds of various calibers a month average sometimes a lot more.

I’m currently reloading 45, 45 Colt, 40 S&W, 9mm,380 38/357. All on my Lee Classic Turret press.

Any suggestions ?

I'm using the Lee Classic Turret press and at times consider an upgrade to a progressive also.

I shoot ~600 rounds of centerfire pistol in an average week, spread between 9mm, 38spl, 357 mag and what amounts to 38 short colt (38spl. case shortened to 19mm and loaded light). I'd like to get a Dillon 650 setup, but am unsure it would be much faster without loading in a lot larger batches.

I'll load 150-200 rounds of 9mm, 38spl and 38SC each plus a box of 357 mag. While a progressive can crank out 150-200 rounds pronto, that only takes me an hour on the LCT, and I can switch caliber or die setups in a heartbeat using extra turrets and be done in 4 hours total. Maybe you can switch setups on a 650 fast enough to complete all four batches faster, I'm not sure.

If I went progressive I'd really like to have several as to dedicate one to each of my cartridges. Which of course is expensive if you do it with 650s. Perhaps our progressive users can clarify how big the runs must be before progressives pull way ahead. I'm thinking it might still be close with 150-200 round batches between altering calibers or die setups, especially if you're fast with the LCT.

 

[refuse2bafool]

I agree. I think an industrial engineer doing a time motion study might find that if you are only loading small amounts of rounds between caliber changes, the LCT is actually faster. Guys who talk about 500+ an hour mean after they have filled a bunch of primer tubes, changed dies or tool heads, tweaked their settings and set out their components for optimal efficiency.

But aren’t those things all part of reloading? A progressive doesn’t speed those things up at all.

Even if it only takes about 15 min. to change calibers (particularly optimistic on a progressive if you are changing primer sizes, tool heads and resetting powder measures) that is enough to load 30-40 rounds on a turret where the time can be limited to just adjusting the powder measure on the new tool head. It’s hard to make that up if you are loading only 100-200 rounds of each caliber. Progressives pay off when you are loading a lot of rounds between caliber changes.

There’s a reason the serious dudes like Drainsmith have FOUR ammo plants!

If you have one caliber you shoot a lot more of than the others, you might buy a progressive and dedicate it to that caliber. Then use the LCT for everything else. That's what I do.

 

[Dudedog]

I use a LNL so I can't say for Dillo's but on an LNL if I am not changing primer size
(I like to quick clean, resize decap, clean then prime off press so when I go to reload I have primed brass)
Change shell plate, maybe 2-3 min
Remove dies in bushings insert new dies 2-3 minutes
Adjust powder measure another 2-3 minutes (longer it it is having one of it's I will throw 4.4 or 4.6 but refuse to throw 4.5 days)
So maybe an honest un-rushed 10 minutes for change over. Add a couple more minutes to change primer size.
I don't have shell plates/dies in bushings for everything I load for the LNL so some are done on my old 3 hole Lee turret.
For me I would say the break even point time/effort (assuming I have the stuff to use the LNL for that cal) is about 100 rounds, so if I thought I was going to do 200 I would change.

 

[RealGun]

I'm using the Lee Classic Turret press and at times consider an upgrade to a progressive also.

I shoot ~600 rounds of centerfire pistol in an average week, spread between 9mm, 38spl, 357 mag and what amounts to 38 short colt (38spl. case shortened to 19mm and loaded light). I'd like to get a Dillon 650 setup, but am unsure it would be much faster without loading in a lot larger batches.

I'll load 150-200 rounds of 9mm, 38spl and 38SC each plus a box of 357 mag. While a progressive can crank out 150-200 rounds pronto, that only takes me an hour on the LCT, and I can switch caliber or die setups in a heartbeat using extra turrets and be done in 4 hours total. Maybe you can switch setups on a 650 fast enough to complete all four batches faster, I'm not sure.

If I went progressive I'd really like to have several as to dedicate one to each of my cartridges. Which of course is expensive if you do it with 650s. Perhaps our progressive users can clarify how big the runs must be before progressives pull way ahead. I'm thinking it might still be close with 150-200 round batches between altering calibers or die setups, especially if you're fast with the LCT.

A plain Hornady LnL AP, no case or bullet feeder, would still give you one cartridge per lever pull. With the die adapters, getting dies set up would be moot, assuming you always do that cartridge on the Hornady. Setup would consist of any change in the primers, the shell plate, and switching dedicated inserts in the powder measure and any powder through expander in the lower assembly along with expanding adjustment. Dedicated lowers make that much easier, skipping the belling adjustment requirement. With a high mount and few other accessories, it would be considerably more invested than a turret, but productivity, especially for someone loading at least 600 rounds a week, should be greatly improved.

Once you add a case feeder, maybe a bullet feeder in some form, you will want to think about batches large enough to warrant the setup effort. Then you have to own enough brass. You would be getting away from your just-in-time approach of reloading only enough to stay ahead of your current shooting. Doing a whole box of 500 bullets would be an example.

 

[Blue68f100]

I have the LNL-AP with the brass feeder. I can change the press complete including primer size in 3-4 min max. The Brass feeder by itself will take 5-7 min depending on what parts need to be changed. I have the powder die base for every caliber I load for. This allows me to only switch the dispenser only. With the micrometer piston, I dial in my load. Settle the powder and adj as needed, 3-4 min. It only takes a 1-2 min to fill a primer tube or 3. Faster if you have the vibra-prime. I normally do this at the start so I can run 500 before time to do it again. Which is only 1 hr on the press and done.

 

[joed]

Here’s a guy selling 2 Dillon 650s. I have no affiliation with the seller. Just passing along

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/selling-dillon-xl-650-presses.3944530/

I saw that one yesterday. The better one was someone selling a Super 1050 that I don't see today. I would buy that before 2 x 650. Found it!
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/fs-dillon-super-1050.3944166/


Used to own a 1050 (predecessor to the super) that I picked up used. Never saw anything like that press, it could produce an honest 1200 rounds an hour without pushing the press. That press left the 650 behind on producing ammo. I used the 650 for small primer stuff and the 1050 for large primer. What I lot of people don't realize is that a lot of the things that are accessories on a 650 come standard on a 1050 or super 1050. Case feeder, better handle and more.

Have to admit I sold the 1050 3 years ago. It was so efficient and producing ammo that I have enough large primer pistol ammo to last the rest of my life..

 

[jmorris]

I have been eying that Dillon to me it seems like it would be much faster than the turret press. I kinda like the idea of manual index . How hard is it to go from large primer to small?

Likely the most simple and quick progressive presse to swap sizes on.

Looks like this.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Likely the most simple and quick progressive presse to swap sizes on.

Looks like this.

That looks a lot simpler than changing out the primer slide. Thanks for sharing. I will need to switch over to small primers here in a while, for the 45 acp brass I have requiring SPP.

 

[RealGun]

I have the LNL-AP with the brass feeder. I can change the press complete including primer size in 3-4 min max. The Brass feeder by itself will take 5-7 min depending on what parts need to be changed. I have the powder die base for every caliber I load for. This allows me to only switch the dispenser only. With the micrometer piston, I dial in my load. Settle the powder and adj as needed, 3-4 min. It only takes a 1-2 min to fill a primer tube or 3. Faster if you have the vibra-prime. I normally do this at the start so I can run 500 before time to do it again. Which is only 1 hr on the press and done.

I am skeptical that the average person could duplicate those times. I certainly couldn't, partly because I don't do it very often. I could kill an afternoon getting everything right, including the bullet feeder. With just the bare press, I could do pretty well. The Hornady primer tube loader doesn't work as slick as I would like. All of it is finicky.

 

[RealGun]

Likely the most simple and quick progressive presse to swap sizes on.

Looks like this.

But emptying primers remaining in the feed is part of it.

 

[Blue68f100]

I am skeptical that the average person could duplicate those times. I certainly couldn't, partly because I don't do it very often. I could kill an afternoon getting everything right, including the bullet feeder. With just the bare press, I could do pretty well. The Hornady primer tube loader doesn't work as slick as I would like. All of it is finicky.

I've setup several for friends. Once I get every thing adj as it should, they run flawlessly. 90% don't take the time to do all the necessary alignment on the primer feed. I use a rod to confirm alignment, plus do little mods to the sled so debree does not cause problem. They can switch between primer sizes and it keeps on clicking. My test for feed is to run the press as fast as it can be done with nothing but primers, with the punch removed, so they drop clear. When right there is never a hang up, as long as you keep the sled track clean.

I don't use a bullet feeder. I like to look in the case to confirm powder. If your not using a collator, your spending more time loading tubes than it does me to set a bullet.