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Contacted by BATFE today!!

Discussion in 'Legal' started by scndactive, Jun 1, 2009.

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  1. scndactive

    scndactive Member

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    Contacted by BATFE today.

    I Had all the doors and windows open in the house today as I usually do on summer days like this, and i hear my full name called, so I go to the door and there are two gentlemen in polo shirts and jeans standing just outside the front door.

    They introduced them selves as Special Agent bla bla and Special Agent somthingorother, we are with the ATF.

    ATF: We would like to talk to you about some guns you bought, a 9mm your wife purchased and two .45s. Do you still have these?

    Me: What is this investigation about?

    ATF: we have been checking on multiple firearms purchases with all the guns going to Mexico these days, Can we take a look at these guns?

    ME: I will have to speak to my lawyer. do you have a card?

    ATF: We're just trying to make sure these guns aren't going to Mexico and keep more gun control laws from being passed:barf:

    I asked where they were from, they said Oklahoma and North Carolina, so they ain't Texas folk.

    They had copies of the 4473s from where I bought them, but what I want to know is how this came up. the pistols were all purchased separately over a three day period, (so no multiple firearms form)so are they just going FFL to FFL looking for x number of guns in x amount of days?:confused:

    I feel like my house just got cased :eek:

    Note: AFAIK I have not broken any laws.
     
  2. TAB

    TAB Member

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    could be any of a number of things.

    your 3 guns in 3 days could have flagged you. Then agin it could have been something one of the dealers did/ did not do that got them intrested. who knows, it might have been just a random thing that you got lucky at.

    if they all came form the same FFL, 3 hand guns in 3 days is a pretty odd.
     
  3. deadin

    deadin Member

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    It's a 5 day period....Title18 USC 44 Ch.923:
    (3) (A) Each licensee shall prepare a
    report of multiple sales or other dispositions
    whenever the licensee sells or
    otherwise disposes of, at one time or
    during any five consecutive business
    days, two or more pistols, or revolvers,
    or any combination of pistols and revolvers
    totaling two or more, to an unlicensed
    person.
     
  4. Quoheleth

    Quoheleth Member

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    I would go with a problem with the dealer/FFL holder. They're probably checking up on deals he made to make sure they are kosher.

    Q
     
  5. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    deadin has it right.

    You were probably unaware, but your FFL sent in a separate form for your multiple handgun purchases.

    Seems like we had a couple of other members post on this.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2009
  6. Martyk

    Martyk Member

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    That's it. 2 (or more) handguns in 5 days, a mandatory report goes to ATF.
     
  7. sniper5

    sniper5 Member

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    If you bought 2 or more handguns in a 5 day period from the same FFL he is obligated under federal law to send a notification form (don't know the exact form number offhand) to the BATFE even though they were not purchased all at once. It sounds like this wasn't a huge deal for them and I'm sure they get a ton of those forms dropped on their desk each morning and have to run around and say Hi to each of the purchasers (I am assuming you would have mentioned if search warrants or..uh..wrist jewelry was involved). If these were from different FFL's I would be willing to bet the instant background checks flagged the multiple purchases when they went through. Shouldn't, but I'll bet there is software in the system to do it, all plausibly weasel-word deniable of course. You probably didn't do anything illegal and they just have to check a box on a form that said you're not running a warehouse of gray market guns. Having spent years working around cops I would be willing to bet they were as eager to move on with their day as you were.
     
  8. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    :scrutiny: That is a strange thing to say.
     
  9. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    It's the equivalent of "We're from the government, we're here to help". :)
     
  10. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    ME: I will have to speak to my lawyer. do you have a card?


    If you just showed them the guns that would be the end of it. Are you really getting a lawyer for this?
     
  11. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    If he's done nothing wrong, why should he give in to their requests? Any time a couple individuals with the power to send me to Federal prison show up at my door wanting to ask me questions, I'd damn sure lawyer up as well. I don't care if all they wanted to know was how to get to the Denny's down the street.
     
  12. dougwx12

    dougwx12 Member

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  13. Noxx

    Noxx Member

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    Just roll over like a good dog and everything will be ok.
     
  14. dirt_j00

    dirt_j00 Member

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    How did the conversation end? You left us hangin!
     
  15. TeamRush

    TeamRush member

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    It's always been that way as long as I've had my license,
    Purchase more than 3 handguns in a month, expect a visit.

    I used to be you couldn't buy more than TWO from the same dealer or he was REQUIRED to report the purchases, and that rule still stands,
    But now they are putting purchases together by SSN, and by firearm type in the computers databases.

    If you live in Indiana and buy up a bunch of rim fire rifles, it's no biggie.
    Live in Arizona and buy up a bunch of big bore handguns or semi-auto center fire rifles, expect a visit.

    I don't know how many times I've had visits from ATF down through the years, just to check the books and make sure the 'Inventory' isn't leaking out someplace without paperwork.

    I make personal purchases, and I get them at home,
    Like at a recent auction of a collection, and I purchased about a dozen different firearms...
    They showed up, I showed them the firearms and paperwork, and they were gone in less than 15 minutes.
    ------------------------------------------------------

    You get treated the way you treat people, so expect the next round of 'Visitors' to be carrying subpoenas and search warrants.

    If you are lucky, they didn't use the magic word when getting the warrants....
    (narco 'Terrorist')
    And you don't wind up 6 states away in an underground cell with a hood over your head!
    That 'Patriot Act' is a b!tch when they want to break it off in your butt!
     
  16. mike26038

    mike26038 Member

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    And what corner of the internet did this info come from. By law, the only info retained by the computer system is the NICS transaction number, and the type of gun sold, IE Hangdgun, long gun ect. All other info has to be deleted within 24 hours of the transaction, unless it was a delayed transaction.
     
  17. Rockwell1

    Rockwell1 member

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    I think someone already said it but yeah, if two cops show up on my door asking questions about anything They're going to get (politely) told " Officer I do not consent to any searches and I'd like to consult my attorney before answering any questions"

    If you'll bother to watch Dr. Duane's video you'll note that he makes the statement that the 4th & 5th amendments to the Bill of Rights were primarly designed to protect the innocent from unwarranted prosecution.
     
  18. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    If he's done nothing wrong, why should he give in to their requests?

    Just roll over like a good dog and everything will be ok.


    There certainly is a lot of paranoia here and lawyers making money.

    I've seen that don't talk to cops video and in certain situations I would agree but not with this one.

    Show them the guns they already know you purchased and if the questioning starts to divert to anything questionable, then get your lawyer.

    Don't show them the guns. Makes you a bit suspect. The agents have to get a subpeona for you to show the guns, gets the US Attorney's office ticked off and if you have done something wrong you sure have drawn attention to yourself and the US Attorney's office will find it.

    Show them the guns you're not running to Mexico and 9999 out of 10,000 it's over.

    Any time a couple individuals with the power to send me to Federal prison show up at my door wanting to ask me questions, I'd damn sure lawyer up as well. I don't care if all they wanted to know was how to get to the Denny's down the street.


    A state prison would be okay? No directions to Denny's. That's paranoid.
     
  19. Dimis

    Dimis Member

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    I think id find a lawyer as well knowing "Officials" like to bend distort and rearange the rules of alot of things showing them the weapons may find you in cuffs the way crazy agents get they may try and bust you for not having a proper lock/safe or god forbid something as rediculous as brandashing a weapon
    pretty much 90% of all official conversations should start with the phrase "I need to speak with my lawyer..."
     
  20. Rockwell1

    Rockwell1 member

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    If your civil libertys mean that little to you, fine. I choose to
    protect mine

    Huge indicator that the system is broke. Be a good little citizen waive your rights, goood boy

    Sucks to be them that's their job.

    Nice little intimidation factor built right into the system. Now citizen, you don't want to make us angry, you wouldn't like us when we're angry. Be a good little prole and bend ove... I mean waive your rights.


    Actually they should end with those words.

    As in " I'd rather not answer any questions with out my attorney present. So if there's nothing else I can help you with good day gentlemen."
     
  21. DAVIDSDIVAD

    DAVIDSDIVAD member

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    Please.
     
  22. Wyo_F-A

    Wyo_F-A Member

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    It must be a down south thing, cause I have purchased 4 handguns at the same time on two separate occasions without incident. Both times were so the wifey and I could pick one or two from the bunch (we wanted to try them all and then make up our minds) and then sell off the others for a small loss through sites like this and gunbroker or back to the original dealer.
     
  23. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    When I was younger, I would have turned to jelly at the thought of real live federal agents on my doorstep. My house, hard drive, gun safe, sure man, whatever. Look all you want.

    Today I would make them do their jobs. I work for my money, they can work for theirs.

    I have a friend, who was involved in a business venture that eventually folded. A couple of years later, two DHS agents showed up and told him that someone who had purchased something from him two years ago was a suspect in a crime, and they wanted to check the records of everyone he had done business with to make sure they weren't involved as well. My friend asked then what the nature of the crime was, they looked at each other, and said; "trafficking in child pornography." Within 15 minutes, they had borrowed his records and copied the contents of his computer to look through later. I asked him what he was smoking, giving them that kind of access. He said, "Dude, they're DHS, they can have anything they want anyway."

    "NO THEY CAN'T!! They snowed you with the line about kiddie porn to freak you out and get you to fall all over yourself to prove that you had nothing to do with it. They played you like a fiddle, you swallowed the hook. You just gave them an easy work day. If they had probable cause for a warrant, they would have brought it with them."

    They are allowed to ply you, tease you, lie to you, lean into your face, tell you they will get a warrant, anything to get around the "warrant, exigency, or PERMISSION" rule.
     
  24. Rockwell1

    Rockwell1 member

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    If you take nothing else from this thread learn this line

     
  25. Gunnerpalace

    Gunnerpalace Member

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    The lawyer thing does not sound paranoid to me,

    More laws more work, paperwork, which nobody likes.


    Oh yeah and anyone still saying 4473 is not a form of registration is fooling themselves.
     
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