Contacted by BATFE today!!

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No. It's still them showing up on your doorstep hoping that you will do their job for them. Not gonna do it. Sharps and Rockwell are right. If you show them the serial #s, what do they need a warrant for?

They aren't doing anything to make MY job easier.
 
Given that the good gentlemen from the Federal government hold a job who's purpose is to gather evidence in order to get convictions, you can hardly fault someone for using their rights to protect themselves. In our justice system, innocence should be defense enough to prevent one from landing in jail; reality has proved otherwise. Thus, your rights are your friends.
 
Given that the good gentlemen from the Federal government hold a job who's purpose is to gather evidence in order to get convictions, you can hardly fault someone for using their rights to protect themselves. In our justice system, innocence should be defense enough to prevent one from landing in jail; reality has proved otherwise. Thus, your rights are your friends.
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Speaking just for myself, if I was paid a visit like this I, I would tell them to come back with a warrant.

BTW: I'm a LEO.

BikerRN
 
This multiple purchase thing is news to me. Here in New York State, every handgun purchase requires a trip to the sheriff's office to have the gun's serial number added to your permit. For that reason, I try to "batch" my purchases to cut down on the back-and-forth trips. For instance, if I've got my eye on two handguns, I'll wait until I can buy them both at the same time and only have to make one trip. So my last three purchases have been multiples. I didn't realize I was generating so many reports.

No visits from BATFE yet. Of course, no one's claiming that guns are being smuggled into Canada...
 
Not cooperating with authorities sure works out well in the various slums, ghettos & gang-ridden immigrant communities throughout the U.S. :rolleyes:

Plus, staying on their "possible straw buyer/smuggler" list can only work out well for you. Better to be seen as a suspect than an innocent person, I always say.

You live in fear. I'll just live.
 
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4473 - fyi

In the early 80's I did a stint as a LEO range instructor and I was sent to the S&W and Colt armorer's courses. I thought I could make some extra money part time by getting an FFL and become a gun dealer and repairman.

Incident #1 - About 3 years into my licensure two BATF agents paid me a visit to "make sure my record keeping was in order." I excused myself to get the records and made a quick call to a buddy who had a gun shop and he assured me that this a "regular" thing and that I should comply. I accepted his advice and complied. My point here is that while they were looking through the records they could have made copies without my being aware. :eek:

Paranoia? :rolleyes: All I can tell you is that my department had some pretty sophisticated spy gear, so why would I put it past the Feds who have a whole lot more money than a local police agency.

Incident #2 - When I did not renew my FFL I was REQUIRED to send all my records to the BATF. Guess who now knows who purchased firearms from me? I was among the purchasers, so now the guns I bought for myself and my customers' guns are now REGISTERED. :what:
 
You're exactly right, Deanimator. If I complied in this situation, that automatically means I've waived all of my rights for the rest of my life.

Oh wait, it doesn't.

So the next time I'm getting pulled over and don't know why, I should just floor it, right?
 
Sheep are sheep, they'll never be anymore than sheep it's their nature

Assertting your civil rights is NEVER wrong or bad and it shouldn't make you suspect. I think it was a mistake for this country to develop the mindset that only badguys lawyer up.
 
Well Waterhouse helped me when I bought 10 revolvers (after 2 years in Iraq), he had the multiple form ready and off I went. Only bought revolvers though. The FED has not rousted me out of my tent at Camp Cupcake Iraq!! Over 4 years in Iraq, and I was so happy GEN Casey admitted we will be here another decade!! More guns to buy!! If the ATFE wanted to get serious, they would be blocking cargo ship deliveries into MEXICO. And the same could be done coming out of mexico. Look at all the guns seen on the news, military grade automatic firearms and rocket launchers are not bought at the mom and pop store is san antonio!!
 
Call me all the names you want. I'd rather help an investigation than hinder one.

Our forefathers were willing to give up everything, including their lives, to create a better country. We've devolved to a point that it's now considered a violation of your civil rights to be asked a simple question by a law enforcement official.

What a pity.


(And yes, I know my car analogy is a bad one)
 
Call me all the names you want.
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I didn't call anyone anything, i made an observation.

Our forefathers were willing to give up everything, including their lives, to create a better country.
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One of the things they sacrificed to give us was the right to protect ourselves in all official encounters with the police

We've devolved to a point that it's now considered a violation of your civil rights to be asked a simple question by a law enforcement official.
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Not at all, the violation comes when i'm badgered into answering them without recourse to my constitutional freedoms
 
They also made a visit to my house after a bulk purchase of 12 cases (5,280 rounds) of 7.62x54R Russian Surplus ammo last year. I was buying for four of us but it appeared to them it was only one guy. I guess they saw that four old guys with antique Russian weapons were not going to start a war.
 
I didn't call anyone anything, I made an observation
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Please, that's older than "I know you are but what am I?" You're implying that anyone who complies with LEO's without a lawyer present is a sheep.

Not at all, the violation comes when i'm badgered into answering them without recorse to my constitutional freedoms
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Please point out in this thread where either 'visited poster' was badgered. By both accounts, the agents were courteous, non-insistant, and left without incident.

While I agree that asserting your rights SHOULDN'T make you a suspect, in the real world, it often does; it can also hinder an investigation.

My community is better served if I am helpful, so that is what I should be - Boogey man or boogey man.
 
Live in Arizona and buy up a bunch of big bore handguns or semi-auto center fire rifles, expect a visit.
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Been buying guns in AZ for over 20 years, not one visit, for any firearm I have ever purchased, OR for multiple purchases of handguns in a single day, which I also have done. And before anyone throws the "privilige" dart, I was doing this WELL before I earned a badge of any kind.
Just picked up two handguns from a local dealer a week ago on the same day...door bell is silent...wonder if they're trying to intimidate Texas into not seceeding... :)
 
The OPs experience is pretty much the same thing happened to me a little over a year ago (before the current administration) in the Houston area. I believe it started with the FFL not properly maintaining his records or filling out multiple purchase forms. It was a scary experience and not one that I would like to repeat. My advice is to find a good attorney familiar with federal firearms laws.

From the threads that I have seen on this subject, it appears that this kind of thing is happening more often.
 
While I agree that asserting your rights SHOULDN'T make you a suspect, in the real world, it often does; it can also hinder an investigation.
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Then it's going to be "hindered", LAWFULLY.

I have NO duty to be "helpful". I only have a duty to obey the law.

The law and US Constitution protect my right not to speak without an attorney present. I haven't the slightest intention of speaking to any LEO of any kind, especially the BATFE, without my lawyer present in such a situation.

Neither the BATFE, you, nor anyone else has to like that. All of you have to abide by it or face the consequences.
 
When we had reached our insanely high quota of tickets for the month and were full of coffee and donuts, we would occasionally look for subjects with felony warrants because that's what everybody told us we should be doing. I didn't realize it at the time but I spoke with a lot of folks here.

"Hello, I'm with the Sheriff's Department and we have a felony warrant for Joe Blow, is he here? "NO" "Have you seen him recently or know where we might find him?" "Ain't my job to find him, that's your job, I ain't gonna do your job. You don't do my job."
 
Knock Knock

Hello?

Lot's of stolen cars in the area lately. Show me the registration for the car in your driveway, please.


How many of you would go for that? I wouldn't, nor would I show them the guns. Somebody said it earlier in this thread - if the gun shows up in Mexico, come see me. Otherwise, get off my lawn.

Now understand, it's not the agents (or LEOs or whomever) that I'm upset with here. It's the people giving those orders. The two guys showing up on the doorstep aren't to blame, and although I hate to use the phrase, they really are just "doing their jobs". They can have a cup of coffee or a coke and we'll sit around and chat. But no, they don't get to see the guns, and they can pass that message up the chain of command until it gets to where the order to come see me originated.
 
Again, making them do their job and standing on your rights is never a bad thing. I have no obligation, moral or civil, to make their job easier.

I am missing the logic in how our founding fathers sacrificed to secure our civil rights so that we can surrender them as long as it a trivial matter and we're really innocent.
 
I have NO duty to be "helpful". I only have a duty to obey the law.
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And no one is saying you do.

What happened to you that the idea of being helpful and a contributing member of your community is so abhorrant?

All of you have to abide by it or face the consequences.
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No need to be threatening. We're just discussing ideas here.
 
Yes, like I've said, the agents were first class, and to clarify, I do not believe that they did any thing wrong, illegal, or even immoral from the time they pulled up to my house till the time they left.

Even as nice as they were being my heart was beating a mile a minute. they were so non threatening in fact, at one point I wanted to tell them what they wanted to know, but I just could not.

Your rights: use'em or lose'em
 
You're exactly right, Deanimator. If I complied in this situation, that automatically means I've waived all of my rights for the rest of my life.
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It means you've waived your rights in THAT encounter. You may not get another chance.

I'd never step into the path of a speeding bus, saying to myself, "I'll stay on the sidewalk NEXT time..."
 
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