Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Conversion For home Defense

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by edggy, Jul 15, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. edggy

    edggy Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2006
    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    Texas
    Iam thinking seriously thinking about buying a R&D Cylinder 45LC for my dragoon.I read in the new issue of a Gun Magazine that the Author talks about using 225 grain Silvertips in these cylinders and not just for the Ruger either) He talks about 1858 army Revolvers For home Defense. Its that for real. I thought you couldnt exceed 850 fps. Now for my question could I use them in my Revolver safely (not all the time) Has anyone used Hollowpoints in this cylinders. I know someone will tell me to buy a Reg. hand gun. But I want something different.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2006
  2. Manyirons

    Manyirons member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,037
    Think about bullet weight, ya cant expect a 100 grain bullet at 850 ta make tha same pressure asa 300 grainer would ya?

    That winchester loads REAL soft an safe in 1873 peacemakers with tissue paper cylinder walls. I joke i kin read tha paper through a 1873 cylinder wall.
     
  3. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    24,960
    Location:
    The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Tex
    I'll stick with my .38 for such, but a .45 Colt is not a weak cartridge even in "cowboy" loadings. ;)
     
  4. dwave

    dwave Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,046
    Location:
    The wonderful United States
    Hey Edggy, 850 FPS is not that bad really. Remember the good ole' 1911 cartridge? The .45 ACP shoots at 835 FPS according to Winchesters Data. It was a 230 gr. bullet FMJ.

    Slow but massive!

    Winchester .45
     
  5. Manyirons

    Manyirons member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,037
    Aint nobody i know volunteerin ta stand in front o one!
     
  6. edggy

    edggy Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2006
    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    Texas
    Manyirons, I don't know very much about pressures on this kind of revolvers.
    Would you by any chance know the safe pressure limitations on a 1848 Dragoon. And how would a Cowboy load compare to a 225 silvertip 45 L.C. as far as chamber pressures. I think the Silvertip goes out about 900 fps. Just curious.
    Thank You
     
  7. Manyirons

    Manyirons member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,037
    Anythin below 17500 psi jus fine, doubt those cowboy loads er winchesters go over 14000. Prolly less. Member theys ALL kinds o old guns out there an people that supply ammo load down to tha oldest weakest you're gonna find.
     
  8. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    23,908
    Location:
    Arizona
    If some poor thug invades a home, and finds the homeowner standing there with a Dragoon... :eek:

    The cartridge won't matter... he'll faint on the spot... :evil:
     
  9. Manyirons

    Manyirons member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,037
    Yup! An NICKEL PLATE that Dragoon and it'll look TWICE as big!
     
  10. Duncaninfrance

    Duncaninfrance Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    662
    Location:
    Blaye, France
    As far as threatening goes, it's what it looks like NOT what it is loaded with that counts.
    "Smell it lady, I am standing in it!"

    If you pull the trigger then dead is dead but I would prefer not to spread the inside of the intruder all over my carpets - just think of the cleaning bill! :evil: :evil:
    Duncan
     
  11. Manyirons

    Manyirons member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,037
    Two words Duncan! SCOTCH GUARD. That an hints from Heloise'll get yer carpet clean! :)

    BUT yer right, better they do tha search fer holy grail thing! RUN AWAY!!!!
     
  12. sundance44s

    sundance44s Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,473
    sundance44s

    My 38 Smith & Wesson has been a lonly guy since i got a conversion cylinder for my 1858 Remington .. 200 gr bullets and 37 grs of B/P expells a Boom complete with smoke and 3 foot of fire out the end of the barrel .. enough to make a home intruder pee his pants ..and beg forgiveness . Might have to call the fire dept to put him out ! hahaha
     
  13. NewShooter

    NewShooter Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    252
    Location:
    ohio,USA
    In my inexperienced opinion, the conversion would be fine for defense. Even the round ball is a good manstopper but you might have to wait for the cloud to clear before taking any follow up shots.:D
     
  14. sjohns

    sjohns Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Messages:
    471
    Location:
    Twentynine Palms, CA
    I keep an 1860 conversion in the bedroom and a dragoon in the living room. There's a 51 under my desk, and a remmie and a 5.7 in the safe.

    I shot at a burglar with a 36 without trying to hit him, and it was sufficient. Just watch the mv's of the rounds you buy and keep the speed under 1000, you'll be fine.

    The 44 has hollow points, the Dragoon and Remington uses 45 long colt and the 51 uses 38 long colt.

    I take all these guns out and fire them when I can. No mechanical problems yet.
     
  15. edggy

    edggy Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2006
    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    Texas
    Thank You) all Very much for the excellent information on this topic. I have
    order everything I need to convert my revolver from Midway. The Author
    of this excellent article does not recommend Cap and Ball for home Defense
    because if the cap or caps happen to slip off the nipples. Well I hate to think
    what can happen.
     
  16. Dr.Rob

    Dr.Rob Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2002
    Messages:
    14,501
    Location:
    Centennial, CO
    and if using actual black powder cartridges you can still set the house on fire trying to blast a burgler.

    This is one area in which mini blinds are better than drapes.

    The cartridge conversions are interesting but most are very expensive.

    A Navy in .38 Special would be at least as effective as a J-frame.
     
  17. The Sicilian

    The Sicilian member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2006
    Messages:
    248
    Location:
    Baltimore, Maryland
    I've shot out of one of those coverted revolvers, it was excellent and very, very accurate. Like someone earlier in the thread said, a .45 APC is moving around 850 FPS and has way more knock down power then a measly little 9mm. I'd choose a converted 58' over other revolvers in a heart beat! They look very intimidating and are strait shooting guns. A Dragoon or a Walker would definitely be a serious conversion, you could probably load it with smokeless over the 1000 FPS maximum that R&D recommends. Anyone have any opinions if the larger revolvers could take more powder? I think a .36 could take more powder than the .44's because of the thicker chamber walls. Besides, the brass from a modern centerfire cartridge takes quite a lot of the pressures to begin with. I think one of the converted Navies might be able to go beyond 1000 FPS, maybe even up to 1200 FPS, anyone have any real data on this or another opinion?

    Sicilian.
     
  18. RyanM

    RyanM Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,412
    Location:
    PA
    I'm pretty sure most of the cartridge conversions are only rated to handle the very light cowboy ammo. The higher power stuff, though still mild, may be a bit much. Also, the stuff that the barrel is made of can barely be called steel, for most reproductions. Even a very soft jacket like what's used on the Silvertips would be much harder on the bore than pure lead ball.
     
  19. The Sicilian

    The Sicilian member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2006
    Messages:
    248
    Location:
    Baltimore, Maryland
    I think that saying "barely called steel" is kind of wrong. I've heard the same thing also, and it may be true for some of the cheaper quality BP makers, but Uberti and maybe even Pietta, make pretty good guns out of good steel. This is only an opinion, of course, and I would really like to know the truth of the matter. Like I said, I've heard the same thing about the steel they use, I just don't think thats true, at least not when it comes to the better manufacturers. Remember though, the brass case takes a lot of the higher pressures associated with smokeless powders, but I don't know how much pressures exactly. It would be nice to know. Does anyone have any data on these things? I've heard of people loading them a little heavier, but how much more I don't know. I guess it's best to stay within the recommended pressures, to be on the safe side.
     
  20. RyanM

    RyanM Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,412
    Location:
    PA
    Brass is significantly weaker than even the crappiest steel, thus the brass case adds next to no strength compared to a steel chamber.
     
  21. The Sicilian

    The Sicilian member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2006
    Messages:
    248
    Location:
    Baltimore, Maryland
    Hello Ryan,

    I did get the chance to speak to an Old Cowboy type who has a lot of knowledge about the steel they use. You and I were both right...the truth lies somewhere in the middle. The steel is fine for the application but not up to par to the steel used in the United States. So it is softer steel after all but no so soft that you couldn't call it steel.:D

    Uberti uses two diffeent grades of steel, one for BP guns and another for cartridge guns, the latter being the stronger (of course). I guess it's cost effective and keeps the price down on these revolvers. If they used better steel I imagine we'd be paying another hndred dollars or so per revolver. The stainless steeel models are most likely the strongest ( at least that's what I would think, anyway) but I really don't know enough about the properties of stainless steel to say for sure.

    It should be stronger than the regular steel they are using.

    sicilian.
     
  22. sjohns

    sjohns Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Messages:
    471
    Location:
    Twentynine Palms, CA
    Home Defense?

    So you're thinkin' you need an elephant gun for home defense?
    When I think home defense, I think about shooting a perp from 3 feet to 20 feet. A 45LC will certainly pulverize the target from that distance. He won't be getting up. If he's wearing body armor, he won't be getting up quickly.

    a 38 LC in the face will stop brain function.

    I think a lot of people equate "cowboy loads" with "something that punches holes in paper". And somehow this translates into a lack of power and performance. 960 fps is nothing to laugh at. Especially pushing a round the size of the tip of most people's pinky finger.

    You have to remember that the 45 auto was the main pistol for the military for many years until they went to that girl gun.
     
  23. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    24,960
    Location:
    The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Tex
    Never thought about catchin' the drapes on fire. Bwaaa, ha, ha!:D

    I usually just lay down the gun I'm carryin' by the bed when I go to bed at night. I carry a 9 or a .38 mostly. I don't really have a "home defense" gun other than my PDW. There's a shotgun in the corner if I have time. I keep the bedroom door locked to try to give me some time. If I got a chance, he could be walkin in the door starin' at a side by side 12 gauge. Now THAT'S intimidation factor. :D
     
  24. sundance44s

    sundance44s Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,473
    sundance44s

    The great state of Mississippi is under the Castle law now in effect .. so i ordered a Uberti 1858 5 1/2 in barrel for a carry gun in the truck complete with R&D drop in 45lc cylinder .. i load these cartrages full stoke black powder 37 grs 3f goex ... under a 200 gr bullet .. it`s a stout load , i don`t shoot these loads much at paper targets ..don`t want to wear me out or my Remmies .. just makes me feel more at ease useing the same guns for home defence that i do so much shooting with .. and i never have been a fan of auto loaders the puney 9mm spray and pray guns.. ya just can`t beat the intemidation factor of these large pistols .. after all we aren`t looking for a gun fight .. i just want to be able to stop one . I feel like showing a bad guy the business end of a 1858 remmie ... is gonna be the great equalizer . After all if the bad guy has been watching the tv westerns he`ll think i can shoot 50 times with out reloading ..lol
     
  25. The Sicilian

    The Sicilian member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2006
    Messages:
    248
    Location:
    Baltimore, Maryland
    The Military is finially getting rid of the girl guns (Hehehe) and going back to the .45 APC because of it's stopping power. You get hit with a .45 and you ain't gonna be runnig forward anymore. If you get hit with a 9mm or a .38 you'll still be able to breach a defensive position. But if you get hit by a .357 or .45 you ain't getting up, period! The .45 was intoduced primarily because of its stopping power, same with the .357. Back in WWI there were some crazy little Muslim fanatics with machetes that would keep on coming after being shot multiple times by a .38 cal and the soldiers were getting cut up pretty badly. After switching to the .45 APC they weren't getting cut up anymore, one shot from a .45 and those little suckers would drop like a lead sinker! I imagine they will switch to a double action .45 instead of the 1911 (they should stay with the 1911).

    Sicilian.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page