I recently bought a uberti 1873 SAA cap and ball revolver. And the gun is really nice, but I was hoping to convert it to fire either 45 acp or 45 colt. I am aware this is a difficult conversion but I was looking for some instructions on doing this. So if anyone has done this before or knows how to do it I would appreciate some input and thank you.
Converting 1873 cap and ball
- Thread starter Liam38
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AlexanderA
Member
This gun is specifically designed not to be feasibly convertible to a cartridge gun. You'd be better off just buying a cartridge SAA, or else getting a reproduction cap-and-ball Remington '58 or Colt '60 and a cartridge conversion cylinder.
1KPerDay
Member
Where do you live? Is it legal to do so in your locale?
If you live in the US, it'd likely be cheaper to buy a $350 .45 "SAA" replica from emf or similar, and have done with it.
If you live in the US, it'd likely be cheaper to buy a $350 .45 "SAA" replica from emf or similar, and have done with it.
You are going to essentially re-manufacturer the revolver.
AethelstanAegen
Member
I don't think you understand what they're saying. They're telling you that it will not be an easy conversion. So you will be having to do a lot more work than you seem to think.
Willie Sutton
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It's a major job.
Anyone who has the technical ability to do it does not need to ask how. If you have the right tools, you are probably also able to look at it and figure it out. If you have to ask, you're probably below the skill level required. It can be done with a welding setup and a file, but... you really need a milling machine to do it correctly, and even then...
Why don't you just find and buy a Colt Cowboy, which is their SAA with a transfer bar? They did not do terribly well in the market, and as a result they are not too expensive. I have one and like it a lot, and there is a certain panache about shooting a Colt when all of the other guys on the line have Italian revolvers.
Willie
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Anyone who has the technical ability to do it does not need to ask how. If you have the right tools, you are probably also able to look at it and figure it out. If you have to ask, you're probably below the skill level required. It can be done with a welding setup and a file, but... you really need a milling machine to do it correctly, and even then...
Why don't you just find and buy a Colt Cowboy, which is their SAA with a transfer bar? They did not do terribly well in the market, and as a result they are not too expensive. I have one and like it a lot, and there is a certain panache about shooting a Colt when all of the other guys on the line have Italian revolvers.
Willie
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Gaucho Gringo
Member
If I remember correctly the firing pin on the hammer is offset and that means the hole in the frame for the firing pin bushing is also offset. I think the whloe frame has to be hogged out and a custom bushing made and installed. I looked into to possibly converting one about ten years ago and decided that I could buy 2 or 3 cartridge revolvers for the cost of the conversion. Remember if you were to build a gun from factory parts the gun would end up costing you 5 times what you could buy a completed one for. The cost of the cylinder, hammer and other parts alone would add up to the cost of a complete new cartridge gun. Unless you either have a machine shop or access to one the project is not even feasible. The one that I read about that someone had converted the guy had a machine shop and it still ended up costing him over double what he could go out and buy one for. But if you want to spend the money, anything is possible. $1500 for a $450 gun just doesn't float my boat.
Is the steel in the cylinder proofed for smokeless? i.e. does Uberti use the same steel in their BP revolver as they do for a 45LC? If not, someone after your widow sells it for 50 bucks will put a hot load in it and blow some fingers off and someone's gonna ask "Where did you buy this thing?". Gulp!
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
I live in Massachusetts too. That statement is incorrect. Whoever told you that does not understand the law.
First off, forget about converting the C&B Uberti to cartridges. As has been stated, they are specifically designed to make the conversion next to impossible. Whoever told you they can be converted does not know what they are talking about.
OK, let's get back to Mass law.
The Attorney General's 1998 handgun regulations, among other things, state that any NEW handgun sold in Mass must pass a drop test. No where does it state anything about a transfer bar. The regulations say nothing about what you are allowed to own either, it talks about what you are allowed to buy. A fine distinction.
Here is a link that will take you to the AG's 1998 handgun laws.
http://www.fsguns.com/malawsandregs.html
Yes, a standard Single Action revolver with a Colt style mechanism will miserably fail a drop test. Drop it on the hammer and the sear or 'safety cock' notch will shear and if it has a live round under the hammer, the gun will most likely fire. Now having a transfer bar does not automatically make it legal for sale in Mass. The gun still has to be submitted to the state for destructive testing. Which is why NOBODY other than Ruger has gone the distance to help out beleaguered Mass gun owners. Ruger has spent a lot of money submitting their revolvers for testing, and most of them are legal for sale in Mass. Ruger has not spent the money on a few models, but you can walk into any gun store in Mass and legally buy a Blackhawk, Vaquero, or Single Six, as long as you have your LTC.
So if you really want a Single Action revolver option one is to simply buy a Ruger. Forget about the Colt Cowboy, they are not manufactured any more, and were never submitted for testing.
OK, Option Two: There is a grandfather clause in the law. Any handgun that was 'legally registered' in the state before October something or other, 1998, is exempt. I can't remember the exact date, but you can look it up if you really want. So if you find an Uberti or Colt, or any other revolver that was in the state prior to that date, you can buy it. This is why you start haunting the guns shops and gun shows. These guns are getting rare, but they are out there. Trust me on this.
Option Three: buy a 'regular' Cap & Ball revolver and buy a conversion cylinder for it. This may be what you are referring to when you are talking about conversions that have been done. If you buy a C&B revolver, it is treated by US law and by Mass law as an antique and no paperwork need be done. You can then purchase a conversion cylinder for it that you pop in yourself. Pop the cylinder in and it is a cartridge revolver. Pop the cylinder out and put the C&B cylinder back in and it is an antique. Presto! If you are going to go this route, I heartily endorse the cylinders sold by Taylors and a few other places, particularly the ones designed for the 1858 Remington. I have a couple myself. The downside of this is that you spend the money to buy the gun, then more money buying the cylinder. But it is legal in Mass. If you are nervous about it, keep the percussion cylinder in the gun until you get to the range, put in the cartridge cylinder and shoot, then pop the c&b cylinder back in for the ride home. Frankly, I have never bothered. I will caution you, there are some other brands of conversion cylinders that require modification to the frame so the gun is fully functional. If you modify the frame, you have permanently changed the gun over to a cartridge gun. Yes, you can own it, but it is yours forever and you can never sell it. That's why I recommend the Taylor's cylinders, no modification of the gun is required. These cylinders are proofed for mild Smokeless loads, specifically for Cowboy Loads.
Here is a link to the Taylor's conversion cylinders.
http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/cartridge-conversions.html
Option Four: Get a C&R license. A Federal Curio and Relic license allows you to buy firearms, including handguns that are on the C&R list. Basically, any firearm that is at least 50 years old is a Curio and Relic, with some exceptions. With a C&R you can walk into any dealer, in any state, and purchase a C&R firearm over the counter and walk out the door with it. No nics check, no federal paperwork. You present a signed copy of your C&R to the dealer, he gives you a copy of his FFL. There are book keeping requirements with a C&R. You must keep a bound book. The ATF can audit you. You MUST NOT use your C&R for commercial purposes, it is for collection ONLY. As far as Mass is concerned, once you cross the state line with your C&R firearm, you have 7 days to fill out an FA-10 form and file it with the state. All completely legal.
You can learn all about the C&R license here:
http://www.cruffler.com/
OK, I admit it is tough to be a Mass gun owner, but you do have options.
Sorry about the Uberti 1873 C&B, you really cannot convert it. That's why they are sold in Europe, where gun ownership is even more restrictive than here in Mass.
BADUNAME30
Member
Liam, I have been down this road.
I tried to find my thread on the subject where we discussed it in length but don't know how to search it.
It's a European market gun with an offset hammer as Gaucho said. There is no way that it is economicly feesable.
I sold my '73
I tried to find my thread on the subject where we discussed it in length but don't know how to search it.
It's a European market gun with an offset hammer as Gaucho said. There is no way that it is economicly feesable.
I sold my '73
The Uberti "Hombre" looks externally like the '73 C&B (matte black) and has a mechanism within the hammer that when put on "safety notch" rotates a cam(?) and blocks the hammer from falling any further. It should satisfy the drop test. They were rcently on sale from Gunbroker for $250 each in 357 & 54LC. I talked to a shooter last week with a pair that he paid $275 for each. They are good guns. That would be an economical SAA type gun. They also have a coil spring & plunger type hand spring which is superior to the old leaf spring.
Willie Sutton
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^^ See "Must be submitted to the Commonwealth of Mass by the manufacturer or importer for approval". No matter what the technical safety of the design is, if it's not been put "on list" it's not for sale there. I doubt that Uberti has bothered.
I'm surprised that the Colt Cowboy was never submitted.
I completely concur with the conversion cylinder in a Remington C&B replica. Fully satisfied with 3 of the darned things... <sigh>...
Willie
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I'm surprised that the Colt Cowboy was never submitted.
I completely concur with the conversion cylinder in a Remington C&B replica. Fully satisfied with 3 of the darned things... <sigh>...
Willie
.
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
Yes, it does not matter how many safeties and such are on the gun, if it was not submitted to the state for testing, it is not legal to sell here.
Period.
As I said earlier, the ONLY single action revolver manufacturer that ponied up and submitted any revolvers here for testing was Ruger. In fact what happened was Ruger challenged the Attorney General. The fine to a dealer for selling a handgun not on the 'approved list' was $5000 per offense. Ruger knew their single action revolvers would have no trouble passing a drop test. And they knew their revolvers would meet the other criteria to be on the list, things like proving the gun was not made of a cheap cast alloy, insuring how heavy the trigger pull was, and several other criteria. So Ruger dutifully submitted their revolvers for testing. I might add, testing means submitting two of each model for destructive testing. The testing laboratory destroyed the guns in the process. And each model needed to have its own separate test. That means if the SKU number was different, two had to be submitted. The exact same gun, but with different barrel lengths, had different SKU numbers, so each and every SKU number had to have TWO guns submitted for destructive testing.
After jumping through these hoops, which cost them a lot of money, the AG did not make any move to put Ruger revolvers on 'the list'. So Ruger sent the AG a letter stating that they intended to start selling their revolvers in Mass, and they would cover the legal expenses of any dealers that the AG tried to fine for selling Rugers.
Well, the AG blinked, and Rugers are legal for sale here. Not every model, they had to decide whether the potential sales would justify the expense of sending in all those revolvers. Last year Ruger introduced a mid frame 44 Special Blackhawk, and it is not Mass Compliant. I would love to have one, but Ruger decided they would probably not sell enough here to justify the expense. I even emailed them, and they told me there were no plans to submit that model for testing.
But I cannot fault Ruger, after all the money they spent, and because they looked the AG in the eye, and he blinked. I will always be a strong supporter of Ruger firearms because of the stance they took regarding the Attorney General's despotic Handgun Safety rules.
Nobody else, nobody, not Colt, Uberti, nor anybody else stood up, they simply wrote off all sales in Massachusetts.
P.S. If you go to the Ruger Website, there is a page for a list of all the California approved handguns and another page for all the Massachusetts approved handguns. It is a huge list. That means Ruger sent all those models in for destructive testing.
Holy Moly!!!!!!!!!!!! the 44 Special Blackhawk is now on the Mass Compliant list, in two different barrel lengths. Way to go Ruger! Guess what I will be ordering soon?
Yes, it does not matter how many safeties and such are on the gun, if it was not submitted to the state for testing, it is not legal to sell here.
Period.
As I said earlier, the ONLY single action revolver manufacturer that ponied up and submitted any revolvers here for testing was Ruger. In fact what happened was Ruger challenged the Attorney General. The fine to a dealer for selling a handgun not on the 'approved list' was $5000 per offense. Ruger knew their single action revolvers would have no trouble passing a drop test. And they knew their revolvers would meet the other criteria to be on the list, things like proving the gun was not made of a cheap cast alloy, insuring how heavy the trigger pull was, and several other criteria. So Ruger dutifully submitted their revolvers for testing. I might add, testing means submitting two of each model for destructive testing. The testing laboratory destroyed the guns in the process. And each model needed to have its own separate test. That means if the SKU number was different, two had to be submitted. The exact same gun, but with different barrel lengths, had different SKU numbers, so each and every SKU number had to have TWO guns submitted for destructive testing.
After jumping through these hoops, which cost them a lot of money, the AG did not make any move to put Ruger revolvers on 'the list'. So Ruger sent the AG a letter stating that they intended to start selling their revolvers in Mass, and they would cover the legal expenses of any dealers that the AG tried to fine for selling Rugers.
Well, the AG blinked, and Rugers are legal for sale here. Not every model, they had to decide whether the potential sales would justify the expense of sending in all those revolvers. Last year Ruger introduced a mid frame 44 Special Blackhawk, and it is not Mass Compliant. I would love to have one, but Ruger decided they would probably not sell enough here to justify the expense. I even emailed them, and they told me there were no plans to submit that model for testing.
But I cannot fault Ruger, after all the money they spent, and because they looked the AG in the eye, and he blinked. I will always be a strong supporter of Ruger firearms because of the stance they took regarding the Attorney General's despotic Handgun Safety rules.
Nobody else, nobody, not Colt, Uberti, nor anybody else stood up, they simply wrote off all sales in Massachusetts.
P.S. If you go to the Ruger Website, there is a page for a list of all the California approved handguns and another page for all the Massachusetts approved handguns. It is a huge list. That means Ruger sent all those models in for destructive testing.
Holy Moly!!!!!!!!!!!! the 44 Special Blackhawk is now on the Mass Compliant list, in two different barrel lengths. Way to go Ruger! Guess what I will be ordering soon?
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CraigC
Sixgun Nut
We've had this discussion numerous times. It's not just difficult, it's nearly impossible without completely rebuilding the sixgun, just forget it. It is designed specifically so that it cannot be converted to fire cartridges.
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