Rosco Benson
Member
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2002
- Messages
- 32
Delmar wrote;
"The esteemed Mr Cooper has talked his way into a corner more than once. At one time, the 1911A1 was dangerous for the user because of the dreaded grip safety which could get you killed.
The D&D 10MM was another well known item. The cartridge is a workhorse and will do likely most anything you want it to if you know how to shoot the weapon, but when the Bren Ten died, ole Coop took off for the 1911A1 camp and has been extolling its virtues ever since. The only thing that changed was his mind-not the 1911A1."
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Jeff Cooper was an advocate of the 1911 pistol, as a personal sidearm, LONG before the Bren 10 was even a blip on the radar. Way back in the 1960's, Cooper was so closely associated with the 1911 that I think he can be given the lion's share of the credit for its popularity today.
In the late 1970's/early 1980's Cooper became impressed with the CZ-75. He wrote glowingly of the pistol, but complained that it was only available in 9mm. Cooper came up with the concept of a slightly scaled up CZ-75 in a 10mm chambering. Dornaus and Dixon attempted to bring such an item to market and failed. There was no "taking off for the 1911A1 camp" by "ole Coop", as it was a camp he had never left. The 1911 was his tool of choice. The Bren 10 was intended to be a forward step from that standard.
As to the 1911's grip safety, Cooper has written several times about how he (and about 25% of his students) have trouble reliably depressing the grip safety when using a proper "high thumb" grip. He has noted that those who experience this difficulty shoudl deactivate their grip safety and that new pistol designs would do well to not include this dubious feature. He certainly has never luridly condemned the grip safety as being "dreaded".
Delmar; it really doesn't appear that you've read Cooper carefully, thoroughly, and over the many years he has been writing. What people THINK they know about Cooper's opinions is often not exactly what he wrote.
As to the Steyr Scout and the scout rifle concept in general; I do not think it is nearly as significant as the advances Cooper made in pistolcraft. Also, the scout is not a range rifle. Its positive attributes of light weight and compactness can best be appreciated when afield, in difficult terrain. They are not as noticeable when carrying the rifle from the range parking lot to the firing line.
The scout scope concept is being "proved" by its close cousin, the forward-mounted, no magnification red-dot sights being used by the US military. Running the "scope" well forward and shooting with both eyes open is working out well with the miltary's Aimpoints and EOTech sights.
Anyway, no one is forced to buy a Scout or to keep it if they try it and find it wanting. Cooper has given shooters another choice in weaponry that might well appeal to them. For that, he is to be congratulated.
Rosco
"The esteemed Mr Cooper has talked his way into a corner more than once. At one time, the 1911A1 was dangerous for the user because of the dreaded grip safety which could get you killed.
The D&D 10MM was another well known item. The cartridge is a workhorse and will do likely most anything you want it to if you know how to shoot the weapon, but when the Bren Ten died, ole Coop took off for the 1911A1 camp and has been extolling its virtues ever since. The only thing that changed was his mind-not the 1911A1."
______________________________________________
Jeff Cooper was an advocate of the 1911 pistol, as a personal sidearm, LONG before the Bren 10 was even a blip on the radar. Way back in the 1960's, Cooper was so closely associated with the 1911 that I think he can be given the lion's share of the credit for its popularity today.
In the late 1970's/early 1980's Cooper became impressed with the CZ-75. He wrote glowingly of the pistol, but complained that it was only available in 9mm. Cooper came up with the concept of a slightly scaled up CZ-75 in a 10mm chambering. Dornaus and Dixon attempted to bring such an item to market and failed. There was no "taking off for the 1911A1 camp" by "ole Coop", as it was a camp he had never left. The 1911 was his tool of choice. The Bren 10 was intended to be a forward step from that standard.
As to the 1911's grip safety, Cooper has written several times about how he (and about 25% of his students) have trouble reliably depressing the grip safety when using a proper "high thumb" grip. He has noted that those who experience this difficulty shoudl deactivate their grip safety and that new pistol designs would do well to not include this dubious feature. He certainly has never luridly condemned the grip safety as being "dreaded".
Delmar; it really doesn't appear that you've read Cooper carefully, thoroughly, and over the many years he has been writing. What people THINK they know about Cooper's opinions is often not exactly what he wrote.
As to the Steyr Scout and the scout rifle concept in general; I do not think it is nearly as significant as the advances Cooper made in pistolcraft. Also, the scout is not a range rifle. Its positive attributes of light weight and compactness can best be appreciated when afield, in difficult terrain. They are not as noticeable when carrying the rifle from the range parking lot to the firing line.
The scout scope concept is being "proved" by its close cousin, the forward-mounted, no magnification red-dot sights being used by the US military. Running the "scope" well forward and shooting with both eyes open is working out well with the miltary's Aimpoints and EOTech sights.
Anyway, no one is forced to buy a Scout or to keep it if they try it and find it wanting. Cooper has given shooters another choice in weaponry that might well appeal to them. For that, he is to be congratulated.
Rosco
). After it's finished (should be soon) I plan to take it through as many classes as I can afford (which isn't many, unfortunately) and get to be really good with it. It should make an excellent take anywhere, do almost anything rifle.
