Cop bashing

[centac]

Of course it wasnt without permission, there's that context thing again.

Look, clearly y'all think that you are right, and I think I am right. None of us is going to change the other's opinions. I made a good-faith effort to demonstrate something, and it didnt work. Mea Culpa. You do what you need to do and I'll do the same.

 

[thorn726]

i go both ways- i find msot police to be ok, and i definitely appreciate their existence overall- HA! i think i like em for pulling over traffic violators more than anything, cant stand idiot drivers

BUT= i have seen tons and tons of totally lame selective enforcement of laws on homeless people which annoys me to no end.

driving while black= driving with long hair is almost the same at times.

the kicker being put in cuffs TWICE on both coasts=
for nothing. seriuosly. OK, so i was busting the cops chops in NY. i admit that.

but in SF- i was walking to a telephone and since i looked like a hippy, walking meant i was running away from the cops screeching into the park.
ok whatever.
that made me mad. i was doing nothing but going to a phone to call my parents of all things, and suddenly i am being put thru the
"we got a call of someone with long hair and a knife"

it seems like cops in the city spend a lot of time harrassing homeless people, while the same street corners are run by violent drug gangs for years and years.
some of this is higher up funding and direction, but not all of it.
cops seem to turn their back on dealers and ticket the panhandlers.

 

[JShirley]

I want to be sure I'm clear where you stand.

This is incredibly frustrating to us in the field

Perhaps asking you to tell me specifics is too much, but maybe you can at least answer this: despite what you may have done previously, are you at this time a Federal, State, or Local Law Enforcement officer?

John

 

[20cows]

"

As far as a search because of an empty coffee can, you'd never have my permission for it, and I'd have a field day with a warrantless search based on such an absurd justification."

Um, there are a couple guys in prison who didnt have the "field day" you think you'd have.

I'd have a field day because you would find anything illegal in my vehical and it would prove an unwarrented search.

(If anything was found by you, you would have been the one who put it there. That, my friend, is THE thing we fear).

 

[Mal H]

If I spotted them [coffee can or coffee bag] in your car I might ask about them, or would that be too outlandish to tolerate. If the explanation was particulary lame or not forthcoming, game on.

Asking about them is a far cry from your previous statement:

For example, if during a traffic stop I observe an empty coffee can or bag in your car, your car is getting searched, no ifs ands or buts.

Unless I'm mistaken, that means you're searching without asking anything. Don't forget this was a traffic stop, not a stop with a prior PC of suspected drug activity. To answer your question - yes, that would go far beyond "too outlandish to tolerate". Perhaps you give yourself too much credit for your ability in the detection of deception.

 

[jefnvk]

Conversly, if you have out of state plates on a rental car and I stop you for a violation on the interstate and I see an empty dryer sheet box, but nothing else is in the car, no laundry, no laundry paraphenalia, there is a whole different context now.

SO, how again does an empty dryer sheet box give you cause? You'd have a field day at my house. Heck, I got empty string cheese wrappers on my desk! Not to mention the empty pop cans, I must be up to something big. And lets not even talk about the empty shipping box sitting here

You are just digging youself a bigger and bigger hole.

 

[LawDog]

Where are all the experts now? With the wealth of knowledge of policing that everybody has here I thought I'd have an answer by now. What's the guys' lawyer gonna say? Everyone here feels free to criticize, well c'mon. You are the experts on laws of arrest, search and seizure, explain what to do with the guy. Its all so simple now isnt it?

You wouldnt want him "hassled" though, would ya? He's just sitting there, plenty of legitimate reasons for that, maybe the car's broke down, maybe he just feels a little tired and wants to rest. Maybe he is gonna pick up his niece so she doesnt have to walk home from school, all those kidnappers out there, he'll protect her. No harm in that, right? He was'nt convicted after all so he must be innocent. It is a public street anyway, he's got as much right to be there as anybody?

C'mon you Probable Cause experts, help out here. When you get called in to the Sheriff's office to meet this guy's attorney, whatcha gonna say?

I believe that's my cue.

Okay, where were we? The subject of multiple Aggravated Sexual Assault/Child investigations is sitting in front of a school with a busted tail-light on his car.

Deputy Sheriff LawDog passed the time of day with the subject, filled out a FI card, checked him for warrants and Protective Orders, glanced inside the passenger compartment of the car, and cited him for a Defective Tail-light.

Now his attorney is in the Sheriff's Office.

Why?

For the FI card? Field Interview Cards are filled out by the dozens, if not hundreds, every day. Even in college departments. No one gets sued because an FI card was filled out.

For the 27/29 check? A routine check of Name and DOB? Again, happens hundreds, if not thousands, of times every day throughout the State of Texas.

The plain view check of the interior of the car? Get serious.

The fact that a citation was issued? Umm...lawyers fight traffic tickets in court, not in the Sheriff's Office. Unless the allegation is that I broke the tail-light prior to writing the ticket a la Porky's. In which case the Sheriff would have already pulled my dash-cam tape and checked.

There is no reason for an attorney to be in the office of the Sheriff if the situation is handled the way I stated.

Now, on the other paw, if Deputy Centac just searched three cars in a row for no other reason than they had coffee cans in the back-seat, well, that's another story.

LawDog

 

[Vernal45]

Police State mentality.

If it is empty and their is a logical explanation for it, so much the better. If I spotted them in your car I might ask about them, or would that be too outlandish to tolerate. If the explanation was particulary lame or not forthcoming, game on.

So, If I was stopped by Centac, empty coffee can in back of my SUV. Centac would ask me about the can. My response would be to not answer anything about the can, none of Centacs business. NOW, According to Centac, GAME ON, he searches my car, without a warrant, all for me exercising my rights to not answer (or if I did answer and CENTAC had a burr up his behind and decided he did not like my answer, he would search. we wont get in to the consent, CENTAC does not like that. That about sums it up.

POLICE STATE, I bet it gives you a warm and fuzzy Centac. :banghead:

 

[Jeff White]

Centac said;

For example, if during a traffic stop I observe an empty coffee can or bag in your car, your car is getting searched, no ifs ands or buts.

Man where do you work? I'd like to know what court system has accepted an empty coffee can or bag as probable cause that a crime has been committed. Perhaps accompanied with some other indicators it might be reasonable suspicion and give you the right to ask for consent to search (yes, up here in Illinois we have to have reasonable suspician that we can articulate before we can ask for consent to seach according to an Illinois Supreme Court ruling in Nov of 2003) but it in no way, shape or form constitutes probable cause and wouldn't stand up in any court here and no judge I know of would sign a warrant based on the presence of a coffee can or bag.

Jeff

 

[El Tejon]

I get to bash the police all day long.

Sometimes more successfully than others.

 

[Jeff White]

El Tejon,

Yeah, but you get paid to do it ....Dinner is on me if you want to drive towards Lebanon, I'm in Pat's 1-3 July class this year.

Jeff

 

[Art Eatman]

I rode "Buddy Patrol" with the Austin, TX, PD back in 1973. Fridays, 3PM-11PM. Nominally. More like 3PM to 3AM, for one reason or another. I rode with a couple of veteran officers.

Anyhow, one night we stopped a kid with a backpack. He was just walking down a street, about midnight. Neither officer got out of the car. One officer asked the kid's name. A little chit-chat of the "Do you need any help? Do you know your way around town?" sort. We drove on, with one LEO filling out an FI card.

I asked about the FI card. Basically, same explanation as LawDog's; not much change in 32 years.

So, according to that recent SCOTUS decision (Discussed at length here at THR), any cop can ask any person who he is, and fill out an FI card. But that has nothing to do with searching on account of empty coffee cans, or whether or not somebody is a known pedophile or merely Joe Poop the Ragman.

And I doubt that any lawyer is gonna hie himself off to the Shurf's Orifice in a state of dudgeon, whether high or low, over an FI card...

As for the purpose/utility of FI cards? I was told that (sometime back in 1972) at end-of-shift, an Austin LEO checked out his two or three FIs and sez, "Hmmm..." and went back out, found the particular FI guy and arrested him on a murder warrant out of Wyoming...

 

[gulogulo1970]

The moral of the story is when you drive hide your drug stuff really well. Better yet, don't get pulled over in the first place.

Really, police powers can be abused by the creative, the evil or the good. If the guy that had the coffee can is a drug trafficer you're a hero, if you search an innocent man going about his daliy life you are the villian.

Before you play your hunches, remember, you better be right before you interfere with someone else's life.

 

[El Tejon]

AND: WOULD YOU GUYS STOP CONSENTING TO SEARCHES!!!! :banghead: :banghead:

You are screwing up perfectly defensible cases out there! :banghead:

Jeff, I'll see that dinner, as long as it involves fish, and raise you a liquid bread.

 

[P12]

I'm really getting tired of having to work all the time.

Maybe I should start carrying an empty coffe can and some softner sheets.

Hey Centac what part of the country are you from? I'm thinking road trip.

Maybe El Tejon can represent me.

 

[GRB]

I cannot wait until I retire. Then the cop/fed haters can feel a bit more more lovey towards me cause I won't be an LEO anymore and; as a retiree there will still be a warm spot for me in the hearts of cops/leos.

All the best,
GB

 

[38SnubFan]

(Correct answer: Plenty - they are the courier of choice for several organizations)

I, for one, would like a list of all these organizations that use little old ladies in their little electric scooters running around town to transport illegal drugs.

Heck, I might even settle for a half-dozen names of these "organizations".

Oh, what the Hell Centac! I'LL SETTLE FOR ONE!!!

Seriously dude, like others have said: YOU SCARE ME! I don't know if you're an LEO or just saying you are. Personally, I don't care - I'll take you at your word.

If you are an LEO, I'd hate to see what happens to you if your superiors read this stuff. If they do, God help you!

Come to think of it, I think I'll grab that empty coffee can sitting in my kitchen, throw it in the car, pick of P12 on the way, and head over to your neck of the woods. So, let me know what department you work for and when you'll be on duty next. I'll be sure to pay you a visit.

And oh yeah, just to make it easier to find me, it will be a small, 2-door, red sports coupe with a scratch on the hood and front nose, with PA plates. Oh, almost forgot: Occupied times 2, with AN EMPTY COFFEE CAN IN THE BACK SEAT!

-38SnubFan

Edited to add: P.S. I'll remember to contact my local police department the next time I see a little old lady scooting along down the street in her electric scooter and report them as a Suspicious Person. Then I can take pride in the fact that the local cops consider a "vigilant" person such as myself to be a valuable asset on the War On Drugs by maintaining an observation and lookout for these "new thugs".

 

[2nd Amendment]

Ya know, I do at times truly believe centac is the latest incarnation of GunKid...

 

[chickenfried]

So AK-74me, still wondering why people have a problem with (some) members of law enforcement ?

 

[AK-74me]

deleted

 

[goalie]

Many civilians may not consider or even know of some of these issues.

I try to judge any LEO individually, and I have met the good, the bad, and the ugly. The bad always had an "us" and "them" mentality. Quite often those cops would forget that they are civilians as well. They are not on active duty in the military.

I take issue with ANY LEO that thinks that they are not a civilian. They are.

 

[spooner]

Police play an etremely important role in maintaining order. However, J.C. Tuccille said, "If cops insist on being an army of occupation, they can expect the subjects to play their role in return."
It's appropriate to mention that the U.S. Supreme Court has consistently ruled the police are not responsible for the safety of individual citizens.

 

[Mannlicher]

This thread looks a lot like a newbie, probably a cop, just stiring the pot.

 

[JShirley]

M,

I don't know. I'd tend to think some type of mall ninja, instead.

(No offense to the security folk out there. I'm back to part-time security work myself, while I'm working on my BA.)

It's usually those "on the fringe" who are, by definition, most extreme, y'know? They just want into the club. All the folks I know to be real cops in this thread are much more laid-back and fair.

John

 

[JohnBT]

An empty coffee can? Maybe a full one, but what's the need to search an empty one? It's empty. I don't get it.

Coffee, I need more coffee - and somebody to make me finish my monthly report. I usually like being at the office before 7, but not today. Okay, the coffee is ready.

And a pet peeve regarding imprecise terminology:

Civilian = subject to civil law
Military = subject to military law
therefore...LEO = civilian

John