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Cop tasers handcuffed 13 year old and gets 3 day suspension

Discussion in 'Legal' started by jsalcedo, May 23, 2005.

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  1. jsalcedo

    jsalcedo Member

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    http://www.local6.com/news/4496638/detail.html

    I love this quote:

    Sgt. D.E. Smith, who was called to the scene, said, "Please don't tell me this is the person you Tased."


    JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- An officer has been suspended for zapping a 13-year-old girl at least twice with a stun gun while she was handcuffed in his caged patrol car.



    A 13-year-old girl is hit at least twice with a stun gun while handcuffed in a caged patrol car.




    An internal report by the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office said Llahsmin Lynn Kallead was handcuffed and in the back seat of the patrol car when Officer G.A. Nelson stunned her, the Florida Times-Union reported for Tuesday editions.

    Nelson and his partner had been called to the apartment Kallead shares with her mother Rosie Vaughan because they were fighting Feb. 7.



    Vaughan wanted police to help get medical help for her daughter, who had been hospitalized for observation in the past for emotional disorders, the newspaper said.

    Nelson, a 6-foot-2 officer weighing 300 pounds, allegedly used the low-setting stun mode when the 4-foot-8 Kallead wormed the handcuffs from behind her back and would not do as directed. "The situation was under control at this point," the internal report said.

    Sgt. D.E. Smith, who was called to the scene, said, "Please don't tell me this is the person you Tased."

    Department spokesman Ken Jefferson said Nelson has been suspended for three days.

    "A supervisor questioned the judgment of the officer, and he began the investigation process," Jefferson said Monday.

    Nelson did not violate written guidelines on using stun guns, but his actions showed poor judgment, the report said. He had been trained to use Tasers and received training as an instructor in January.
     
  2. nico

    nico Member

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    it sounds like their written guidelines need some revision and/or clarification.
     
  3. griz

    griz Member

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    A handcuffed 4 foot 8 inch 13 YO girl. I know that LEOs don't like to condemn their own, but try and see how bad this looks to plain ol citizens. And please don't tell me how bad a three day suspension is. It should be a crime to zap restrained people, even full grown people. Would you arrest a parent who zapped their 13 YO daughter because she was uncontrollable? Please tell me that you can see the double standard here.
     
  4. nico

    nico Member

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    I disagree. Many adults can be very violent and difficult to handle even when in handcuffs, so I wouldn't want to have a blanket policy like that. But, I don't see any way that tasering a 13 year old girl who is already handcuffed in the cage of the cruiser could ever be justified.
     
  5. Vernal45

    Vernal45 member

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    Florida again.


    WOW, just WOW.


    I will refrain from comment, It wont do any good. I will sit back, watch the LEO apologists defend this one.

    Should be fun.
     
  6. Combat-wombat

    Combat-wombat Member

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    What IS it with Florida and unwarranted taserings?

    Edited to add: ...Not even mentioning Rasta-DEA agents with Glock Fo'tys.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2005
  7. joab

    joab Member

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    Maybe, but
    Apparently it's not. Revision of the guidelines and at the most a 3 day suspension. Personally I think making fun of him in the locker room might do the trick. The purpose of punishment should be to make sure it doesn't happen again, not revenge
    Sure they would, just as a person would be arrested for ordering someone out of their car at gunpoint for not pulling over on command. Cops are tasked with doing things ordinary citizen can't do. Just as apples are tasked with growing in trees that oranges can't
    I'd pay a dollar to anyone that can
     
  8. Orthonym

    Orthonym Member

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    Quote: "What IS it with Florida..."

    I dunno, I used to think it was subclinical insecticide poisoning, or the kind of warped minds who believe Real Estate ads, or something, but, yup, we're pretty weird here, even the most "normal" of us.

    I am reminded of the time I was complaining about mean FL cops to a friends wife (who lived in the sorority house at FSU either just before or just after Mr. Bundy did one of his abduction/murders there).

    She said to me something like, " Now [Orthonym], go down to the Post Office and look at the Wanted posters. At the bottom, it will generally say something like "Last seen in Florida.""

    I grew up in this state and it chaps my donkey to see things drift ever more toward the cheap, the quick, the nasty, and the trashy, but it proceeds apace and there ain't nuthin I can do about it.

    Grumble!
     
  9. R.H. Lee

    R.H. Lee Member

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    Haloooo, Florida, (again)

    He'd probably run out of donuts and was experiencing low blood sugar. :p
     
  10. RevDisk

    RevDisk Member

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    Errr. Nope. People in just a set of handcuffs can still be dangerous. One of my ex's could be handcuffed behind her back, sorta dislocate her arms (or maybe double jointed? Freaky, either way) and brought them in front of her. We liked to amuse some of our cop buddies by showing it. They always got this horrified cringing look on their face.

    Anyways. There should always be some lee-way in guidelines for unusual circumstances. Now, tasing a handcuffed kid in the cage is... uh... well. His supervisor said it for me. Barring circumstances unknown to this officer's supervisors, I'd say it was excessive and likely uncalled for.
     
  11. Orthonym

    Orthonym Member

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    Good thing he didn't try it at Abu Ghraib

    I mean, Lynndie England was photographed just pointing and laughing at mild hazing, and she's looking at about a decade in the joint.

    Oh that's right, policemen are "special".

    Look, there seems to be something about being here (in FL) that induces dangerous lunacy in people, both the Govt. employees and the freelance criminals. It's very trying to attempt to behave rationally and politely here, and have both of those groups look at one in a nasty, creepy way!

    Edited for clarity: Inserted (in FL) after "here."
     
  12. Illuminaughty

    Illuminaughty Member

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    Not enough details to pass judgement. Being female and 13 years old does not make you incapable of doing SOMETHING threatening.
     
  13. Derby FALs

    Derby FALs Member In Memoriam

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    There was enough details or they wouldn't have suspended him. :banghead:
     
  14. Orthonym

    Orthonym Member

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    Illuminaughty, I tellya!

    It's Florida! We're nuts! Not in a florid, creative, way, like the California loonies, but in a low sordid nasty rancid way, smelling (if I may nuke a simile) like rotting vegetation and Malathion!

    (Yes, just thinking about those smells brings back nostalgic thoughts.)
     
  15. Jeff

    Jeff Member

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    I like the way these articles emphasize the size difference between the two subjects, so if the officer had reacted forcibly-- and utilized the size and weight differences-- it would have been okay. :rolleyes:

    It's logically incorrect when those types of details are meant to illicit a reaction when the gist of the article concerns the dis-advantageous nature of the brutality in the first place.

    The point here is NOT parents can't do what cops can do, but rather who should get away with what. Certain questionable tactics of force, whether it be applied for discipline, or for reaction to a threat, should be handled accordingly after all the details of the situation have been considered-- whether the applier of force be a cop or a parent. If an individual feels it is necessary to order someone out of his or her car, he better have a good reason. Chances are he won't be able to, however, because he doesn't have the physical equipment to do so. No marked car, no sirens, no uniform. The paraphernalia itself-- the lack of it, I should say-- is the only thing preventing the average citizen from acting in that manner.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2005
  16. Orthonym

    Orthonym Member

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    Umm, She's 4'8, He's 300 lbs, and

    He had to Tase her *TWICE*?

    I tellya, we're right mental here! (thinks about busted air-conditioner and how crazy I will get when temperature is 99 degrees and humidity is 100%)
     
  17. Jeff

    Jeff Member

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    You have another two or three weeks before boiling point.

    Good luck! :p
     
  18. runswithscissors

    runswithscissors Member

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    I think its great

    The next time a cop is within his legal rights to to do something and someone refuses to cooperate, they should get tased. Mess with cops following the law and you should be prepared to deal with what follows(provided its legal). Bet this bi**h will think twice before flaming at a cop. The cop could have tried to physically get compliance, but then he could be sued for "touching" the young girl. So to this chick I say.... :neener: smarten up.
     
  19. DeputyVaughn

    DeputyVaughn Member

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    I almost hesitate to comment here. (previous experience ya know)

    First, I'm not condoning the deputy's actions here. I'm not condemming them either.
    Consider: The girl was enough out of control that her parents called for assistance.

    Her behavior was such that she was restrained and placed in a patrol car. Because juvenile laws are so messed up, that would not happen unless the situation is really bad. In most juvenile cases, unless a felony has been committed the kid is generally turned over to their parent or gardian anyway.

    Patrol car cages,(at least mine) are actually a barrier between the front and back seats. A person determined enough can break the door or back glass out and try to escape or hurt themselves. By getting the cuffs to the front they become a weapon. They are very good for breaking glass or striking with. might hurt but can still be done. I work with a guy with a 4 inch scar on his face from being hit by a "little" girl with cuffs in the front.

    Lastly, as runswithscissors mentioned, what would the story have read if the 6'00 300lb deputy had just dove into the back seat to re-restrain this girl. I can see the headline "deputy assaults 13 yr old in back seat of his car". It sounds like a no win situation for the deputy here. I'll remind everyone, we weren't there. Don't judge by a printed story alone.

    Question for all, what if he had used O/C spray instead of the taser? Would that have been more acceptable.

    My $0.02.

    Scott
     
  20. Zach S

    Zach S Member

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    I agree. These days, it wouldnt surprise me if a kid was tazed and the article said something along the lines of "couldnt the officer physicly restrain him/her?" This article seems to impy that, comapring the deputy's size with the girl's.

    OTOH, it wouldnt surprise me if they physicly restained a kid and the paper said "couldnt they just use their tazer?"

    Come to think of it, I think I saw the first one when the LEO tazed the 6yo boy threatening to cut himself with a peice of glass.
     
  21. HankB

    HankB Member

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    Hmmm . . . if someone OTHER than an officer did the exact same thing under the exact same circumstances, I wonder what the legal consequences would be?
     
  22. jsalcedo

    jsalcedo Member

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    How did he cuff her in the first place?

    If the cop had pulled her out of the car and re-restrained we wouldn't have heard about it.

    Everyday resisting suspects (even young ones) are "controlled" without anyone getting their panties in a wad.

    Tasers have their place in police work but they are not a panacea.
     
  23. Derby FALs

    Derby FALs Member In Memoriam

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    You guys can whitewash it all you want but his sgt even said he was out of line. :rolleyes:
     
  24. centac

    centac member

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    While I think this case looks funky at best, people still lose sight of the fact that the Taser is actually very low on the force continuum and preferable to going hands on with people. Tasing someone gains compliance with minimal risk of injury, versus the scratching biting slapping punching kicking that can occur while physically restraining someone. Both the officer and arrestee are at greater risk of injury than with the Taser.

    It is the closest thing we have to setting a phaser on stun.
     
  25. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Member

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    Well, based on the few details alone, I couldn't convict the guy, but his superiors obviously think it was over the line. I am sure there is more to it.

    Just let the LEO's use duct tape to restrain people. :)
    Or just let the LEO smack her around a little instead. That would go over well.
     
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