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Copyrighted Data

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Bcwitt, Oct 16, 2021.

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  1. Bcwitt

    Bcwitt Member

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    Are there any legal issues w taking photos of commercial Reloading books & posting them on THR? That would save much data & time. Also preserves accuracy of information. I just thought I would ask , if that would ruffle any feathers?
     
    GeoDudeFlorida likes this.
  2. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?pages/code-of-conduct/
     
  3. AJC1

    AJC1 Member

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    PM that data and protect us. Really old manuals may get a pass....
     
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  4. Bcwitt

    Bcwitt Member

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    Thanks guys!
     
  5. Bcwitt

    Bcwitt Member

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    Yeah, there are several that copy others data. I think Richard Lee acknowledged it in Modern Reloading.
     
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  6. Ranger99

    Ranger99 Member

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    " load data was assembled from that
    published by suppliers of the powders
    with their permission "
    from
    Modern Reloading by Richard Lee
     
  7. higgite

    higgite Member

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    The key phrase there is "with their permission".
     
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  8. Soonerpesek

    Soonerpesek Member

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    so................
    All the times people posted a pic of their reloading manual page(s) on THR to show another member.......
    That was "illegal"........?
     
  9. Demi-human

    Demi-human maybe likes firearms a little bit…

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    Printing the whole book and trying to sell it, or charge money for the information is illegal.

    Showing a picture of one specific load data reference to prevent someone from blowing their face off because they won’t “believe” those bullets are the wrong ones, isn’t.;)
     
  10. Hooda Thunkit

    Hooda Thunkit Member

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    :thumbup:

    Using a snippet of information to illustrate a point is not violating a copyright, as long as the source is stated.

    Charging money to view the copyrighted info is violating the copyright, unless by permission of the holder.
     
    mcb, Demi-human, twarr1 and 3 others like this.
  11. sota

    sota Member

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    https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/more-info.html

    In my humble non-legal never stayed at a holiday inn opinion...
    As the article I linked discussed, considering the four factors listed I would suggest that an image of a page or 2 that is not publicly available on the internet would be safe, provided the information contained on them is contextually relevant to the discussion being had, is properly cited (link to writer/retailer having said work for sale), and possibly a suggestion for the target/reader to obtain a copy for themselves, should be sufficient to provide the legally responsible owners of this site with sufficient cover. That being said it is will within said owner's right to remove such content if presented with an appropriate demand. If such were to happen I would like to see such a notation made so that the membership could engage the copyright holder, in an appropriate manner, to discuss why they felt the need to block what could be viewed as free advertising and testimonial for their product.
     
  12. higgite

    higgite Member

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    We can link to articles and quote copyright laws and state our opinions all we want, but the forum Code of Conduct rule #5 that 243winxb quoted and linked to in post #2 pretty well says it all as far as what’s allowed by the forum powers that be. I’ll try to stick to that. ymmv
     
  13. Bcwitt

    Bcwitt Member

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    So the answer to my original question is YES it will definately ruffle feathers. Thank you all for your insight.
     
  14. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    Feathers ruffled.

    If I and others can purchase the manuals then why can't those who all they want is load data.??
     
  15. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    I can quote Bill Shakespeare without a note from the Royal Exchequer; but if post a copy of, “A Midsummer Night’s Dream,” without citation or permission I’m in trouble. That’s kinda how public domain and fair use laws work. That’s also how Rule 5 is stated.
     
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  16. alfsauve

    alfsauve Member

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    As my attorney says, Fair Use is what you use as your defense when the multi-billion dollar corporation hauls you into court for Copyright
    infringement.

    Roll the dice, takes your chances.
     
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  17. mdi

    mdi Member

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    Personally, I don't pay much attention to any load data I see on any forum, photo of a reloading manual page or "pet loads". "Save time"? Buy your own manuals! There is way more good info in modern reloading manuals than load data. If I see an interesting load on line ("Load Data" or a powder or bullet manufacturer's site) I quite often, 99% of the time, check it against one of my published manuals. I'm not familiar with copyerite laws, but I did put together a "How to rebuild a Delco alternator" booklet but could not use any Delco photos. So, for me my guns and my handloads, it won't concern me either way...
     
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  18. Soonerpesek

    Soonerpesek Member

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    Yet, if I purchased said manual, and wish to share it with another person, reloader, friend, or someone that simply asks for info....
    I will gladly do that, not really caring whose feathers have been "ruffled".
    As stated, MY purchase, if I choose to share it without profitting from it, so be it......
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
    Skgreen likes this.
  19. 1942bull

    1942bull Member

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    I spent q5 years as CEO of a trade association that dealt with copyright issues on a regular basis. I have co-authored a book on copyright rights. I am not an expert but a I know a good deal about the topic, the law, and the legal precedents. In the interest so our forum members ai can say that a number of statements made in this thread are unfounded and some are a little bit correct but not detailed enough to keep a copier out of trouble. When it. comesmes to copyright the best policy is to get permission or link,to the work you are tempted to copy and post. Recently the Congress enacted a law allowing copyright owners charge an alleged infringer through the US Copyright office, which can find a person guilty and award damages to the copyright proprietor. So getting prosecuting small value © claims is now affordable compared to going to federal court. Be. Careful. Link to copyright protected content, and don’t assume old means there is no © in force.
     
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  20. Skgreen

    Skgreen Contributing Member

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    IMHO copying/posting a page or 2 from a reloading manual with the intent of helping fellow reloaders is most likely never going to land anyone in court.

    Copy entire manuals and sell them here on THR? :eek: Whole nuther thing!
     
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  21. Mark_Mark

    Mark_Mark Contributing Member

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    for Real! I’m more worried about the AFT shooting my dog for having too much primer than a page or two
     
  22. 1942bull

    1942bull Member

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    so you are OK with violating Forum rules ans federal law? I’ll bet you do not feel the same way about infringement of your 2A
     
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  23. Bcwitt

    Bcwitt Member

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    Very good point.
     
  24. Mark_Mark

    Mark_Mark Contributing Member

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    if we are talking pure IP law, then we can’t use any of the loads that are published unless you buy the manual. I feel the load data is free and fare public usage, because the component manufacturers have a vested interest in “you”
    using their products.

    Also, lets look at case law or lack of. Has a reloading manual publisher ever sued a person for sharing pages from the manual? I dough it, and for reason.
     
  25. Bcwitt

    Bcwitt Member

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    It would not be worth it for them to sue you or I. It might be to sue THR. Thus the rule. It makes sense to me. You & I can share such data. It just isnt cool to put it here, as it puts THR in a difficult position. That's why I asked. Darned glad I did.
     
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