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Cost to convert Garand to full auto

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by RCBS, Aug 15, 2011.

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  1. RCBS

    RCBS Member

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    It it a reasonable thing to do or is there something illogical about it beside money?

    Not counting the gun, how expensive is the licensing and gunsmithing?
     
  2. .45Guy

    .45Guy Member

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    How much will it cost to invent a time machine to take you back to 1985?
     
  3. colt1911fan

    colt1911fan Member

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    I never even thought about that this has my attention. But where a new machine gun cant be manufactured for the public anymore I dont think it possible. Someone who knows more then I do will be along soon.
     
  4. jogar80

    jogar80 Member

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    Don't know how intensive an operation it would be to make the conversion, but it would be an illegal machine gun either way. The rifle in question would have had to be registered as a machine gun before 1984 for it to be a legal conversion today.
     
  5. MtnCreek

    MtnCreek Member

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    Assuming it is possible to make a FA Garand, it can be legally done. All you need is a type 07 FFL, SOT 2 tax stamp, ITAR registration and a demo letter from a Gov agency. Simple!:)
     
  6. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    An 8-round full-auto seems to be a bit illogical, but that's up to the user, I guess.

    It is perfectly legal to build a full-auto firearm or to convert one to full-auto. However, that work must be done by a Special Occupational Tax Class 02 manufacturer (who must first hold a Type 007 or 010 Federal Firearms License as a manufacturer).

    Also, and more importantly, that gun can never be owned or possessed by anyone who is not a Class 02 manufacturer, Class 03 dealer, or a government agency.

    In other words, as a "private citizen" you CANNOT do this. Since 1986 the registry of full-auto guns in private hands has been closed, meaning that you cannot register a new "transferrable" machine gun. You can buy, sell, trade, etc. those in the registry before that date, but cannot add one more to that list. That's why the prices are so astronomically high. Lots of demand, very limited supply.

    The costs to set yourself up as an FFL manufacturer and SOT 02, including paying the license fees, insurances, state business license fees, ITAR fees, etc. would run many tens of thousands of dollars and take quite some time. And, you will only be granted those licenses if you are going to be actually "in the business of" making guns for a living. Improving your own collection of toys is not a valid reason.
     
  7. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    If you had the proper licensing to do this, you wouldn't be here asking the question. That said, I can't imagine that an 8rd full auto would be much fun.
     
  8. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    May 19, 1986, the NFA registry was closed to new machine guns for private owners.

    I suppose if a government agency (police) showed an interest, a properly licensed manufacturer could build an example.

    Full auto M1 Garands were experimented with by Army ordnance in WWII and abandoned as a bad idea (see WHB Smith, "Small Arms of the World"). Quite frankly, full auto in .30-06 or 7.62 NATO in a nine pound rifle is not controllable. When Colt made a police version of the 1918 BAR to compete against the Thompson submachine gun, the Colt Monitor was kept at a minimum of sixteen pounds with a Cutts compensator (recoil brake) for controllability.
     
  9. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    The T20 series LOOKED like full auto M1s but had a lot of changes to design and construction. The T22s from Remington were closer to M1s but still not just a simple conversion to full auto, at least after the first prototypes to let them know what they were dealing with.

    A moot point, it would not be a legal project for private ownership.
    You would have to be a licensed manufacturer and there would be hoops to jump through even if you were. There is a lot of legal maneuvering behind the scenes on SoG that they don't bore the casual viewer with.
     
  10. valnar

    valnar Member

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    I agree. I don't see the point. Maybe a different gun....sure. ;)

    I don't think I would want to feed ($$) the habit of a full-auto .30-06 nor would my shoulder appreciate it. If anything, a M16 or Tommy gun would be more fun, but same restrictions as pointed out above apply.
     
  11. USAF_Vet

    USAF_Vet Member

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    10 years in Club Fed :D
     
  12. Bubbles

    Bubbles Member

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    Hey, I'm not a spy. ;) It's Type 07 and 10, not 007 and 010.
    http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5310-12.pdf
     
  13. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    :) Got happy with the zeros there, didn't I? :)
     
  14. 56hawk

    56hawk Member

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  15. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Physically, probably.

    Logically? Ugh...why? Take a $20,000 sought-after original gun and turn it into a franken-toy that no one in their right mind would take a chance on? (Actually, you could grab a cheaper registered "reweld" and then re-re-weld it onto a Garand...I guess.)

    Legally, probably not. The ATF has gotten a lot stricter on what counts as legal repair work. Cutting a receiver in half and welding on parts of another gun is probably not going to pass their approval. But you just never know.
     
  16. Sunray

    Sunray Member

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    "...10 years in Club Fed..." Believe there's a 6 figure fine too.
     
  17. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    You should be beaten unconscious with a warm squash for even suggesting the destruction of a transferable M14. :D
     
  18. TaxPhd

    TaxPhd Member

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    07/2 doesn't require a demo letter to make a machinegun.
     
  19. Ian

    Ian Member

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    Sadly, there is a legal limit to how much you can modify a machine gun before it becomes legally a new machine gun that must re-registered. This is why you don't see rifle-caliber uppers for Mac-10s, for instance. Or why you can't legally adapt a registered FNC sear for use in an AR. Not a regulation based on any good reason, but just to prevent people from making creative use of the limited supply of transferable guns.
     
  20. FIVETWOSEVEN

    FIVETWOSEVEN Member

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    I think if you add a upper to a MAC 10, you could legally fire rifle rounds. After all you can change a M16 to fire 9mm.
     
  21. Ian

    Ian Member

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    The difference is that ARs were offered from the factory in both rifle and SMG configuration. Not so with Macs. Ergo, you can legally convert the AR to rifle calibers but not the Mac. Not my logic, this is ATF logic.
     
  22. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    Legalities aside, and the obvious limitations of the original magazine, the change is neither impossible nor especially difficult for someone with access to a decent machine shop. The two basic methods are the M14 method, with the selector switch at the rear, and the Beretta BM59 method, with the selector at the front. The latter would be the easier to use for a conversion.

    Actually, converting the M1 to use a BAR magazine has been done too, but so much metal has to be removed from the receiver that I have never felt the conversion is a good idea. Converting to 7.62 NATO and using an M14 magazine is more feasible and many so-called "Tanker Garands" were converted that way, some to FA (when sales to individuals was still legal).

    The real problem, again legalilties aside, is that a full auto M1 in the original caliber would be uncontrollable and too light even for bipod use.

    Jim
     
  23. medalguy
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    medalguy Member

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    Jim is right. I have a Winchester M14 and I don't even like to shoot it FA. It's not really controllable at all in FA. That's one of the big reasons the Army converted to the M16. I also had a BAR at one time, shot it a few times, and got rid of it. The only fun and controllable weapon in 30-06 is a 1919 BMG on a tripod.

    A Garand in FA? Pretty ridiculous unless it's just to see if it could be done.
     
  24. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    Putting aside the cost and legal aspects for a second...

    An 8 round full auto shoulder fired .30-06??:what::what:

    Have fun...
     
  25. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    'BLAPPT' 'Ting' ....cr.crunch click.. BLAPPT Ting...
     
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