Could there be a backlash?

[John Q. Pirate]

Are false statements.

Says who?

Your previous posts suggest NY/NJ-style gun control could be "imposed" unilaterally and at any moment nationwide. If that's the case, why hasn't it happened yet?

We have a president who just a day ago was publicly lamenting the failure of his signature gun law as the biggest "frustration" of his tenure. Why the all the theatrics if new restrictions were just a pen stroke away?

Look, I get it. Our derelict media is doing our side no favors by sensationalizing mass shootings and giving the banners free air time for their cause. But that's just one aspect to this whole "debate."

Not long ago a study was done and a statistic surfaced that fully 4% of the entire voting population of the US considered gun control as an important issue. I have no reason to doubt this figure - the overwhelming majority of folks I encounter (and I happen to live in a very restrictive state) are simply ambivalent about the 2A.

We're not fighting the whole US population. For all practical purposes, we're surrounded by fence-sitters, and believe it or not, it would be wrong to assume it is a foregone conclusion that they're so easily lost to MAIG, Everytown, or whatever Bloomberg is calling his group these days.

Don't get me wrong. We shouldn't rest on our laurels, and could use more with your uncompromising zeal. But we also have earned the right to be optimistic.

 

[castile]

Canter and Iraq have the latest gun bashing to page 18. Only the very focused anti gun nut is still trying to push gun control. Canter's loss will also be a shot in the arm of the GOP to stay the course and not waver to the dark side of gun control or immigration or amnesty what it really is. Canter was an opportunist who did his own thing instead of working for the people he represented.

 

[BSA1]

ohbythebay,

For starters quit acting like losers and more like the winners we are.

Gun owners are the majority.

the first two

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are false statements.

For some reason you continue to have negative attitudes about being a gun owner and gun ownership in general.

Gun owners are the majority. Consider these facts;

The FBI estimates that there are over 200 million privately-owned firearms in the US. (This estimate is old data. I could not find any newer stats from the FBI. Other sources state there are 310 million guns are privately owned in the United States).

If you add those owned by the military, law enforcement agencies and museums, there is probably about 1 gun per person in the country. If you want to get a rough idea of how many guns there are out there just look at how many people you see out there then multiply by a factor of estimated ownership. The last best guess was about 350,000,000 Total. That would be 1 weapon for every man woman and child. The average gun enthusiast owns several firearms which includes pistols, shotguns, and rifles of all makes and models. It is often estimated that about 1 in 4 people own any firearms and on average firearms owners own 4 guns each. When you factor in the households that have spouses, significant others, adult children and relatives living in a single household this number becomes even more important when all the family members have access to the firearms in the home.

Bear in mind when determining who actually “owns” the guns in the household. For many years my wife has had no interest in owning a gun strictly for herself. However she often shoots the firearms I own. So depending on how the question is asked are there 1 or 2 gun owners living in our home (at one point my two adult children were also living at home and they are both shooters). Just for the record she is now the proud owner of a Colt Police Positive Special.

Don't overlook the fastest growing part of the handgun market is women buying guns.

Another important factor is how many people will admit to owning firearms in anti-gun places like Washington D.C., NYC, Chicago and States like New Jersey where mere possession will result in prison time? With the level of distrust of Government in America today how many people anywhere in America are going to answer yes on a survey that asks if they own guns?

So...I still stand by my statement that gun owners are the majority but for your benefit I will amend my statement to;

GUN OWNERS AND PEOPLE WITH PRO-GUN ATTITUDES ARE THE MAJORITY.





http://www.gunsandcrime.org/numbers.html

http://www.gunsandcrime.org/suter-fa.html

 

[ohbythebay]

BSA1..lets keep this civil as it has been

Lets just talk and keep it civil as it has been so we understand one another.

You are incorrect on your assumption (about me) and the numbers.

I do not have a negative attitude about gun ownership. Quite positive in fact, own 6 guns, go to the range several times per week, love to talk about them, write my politicians almost weekly to make sure they get the message. If I am negative on anything is people thinking "negative things could not happen". Being complacent rather than proactive. Did you use my letter in activism and write your political representatives? If we don't, the only voice they hear is from anti's.

It is estimated that there are approx. 57 million gun owners in the US, regardless of the number of guns. That leaves about 280 million NON gun owners and potential votes against us. The NRA itself has only approx. 5 million members.

We are not in the majority. That's all. I respect and support the things you have to say but I want proactive work.

 

[John Q. Pirate]

It is estimated that there are approx. 57 million gun owners in the US, regardless of the number of guns. That leaves about 280 million NON gun owners and potential votes against us. The NRA itself has only approx. 5 million members.

You can't count the entire US population as a potential voting pool.

According to the Census Bureau, as of 2012, 23.5% of the entire population is under 18, and thus ineligible to vote (and own guns).

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

Also, voter turnout in recent elections hovers between 50-60%; less so for congressional midterms.

http://www.abc15.com/news/national/...-turnout-lower-than-2008-and-2004-report-says

I've said it before and I'll say it again - we absolutely must not become complacent - however, you're overstating the potential opposition.

 

[Billy Shears]

I think if people are actually paying attention to anything in the news beyond celebrity gossip, any backlash will be against all the lies being told by the current administration and their willfully blind media lapdogs -- "gun violence" statistics included.

Don't hold your breath. Just look at all the scandals that have emerged in the last few years -- "Fast and Furious" gunwalking scandal, NSA monitoring reporters, hacking Sheryl Atkisson's computer, IRS targeting conservative groups, Benghazi, VA scandal, et al. -- how this administration has dealt with them, and what the aftermath has been. It invariably follows this procedure:

1. I am outraged that this has happened.
2. We will get to the bottom of this and hold those responsible accountable.
3. I will appoint _____ to investigate this issue and get to the bottom of what went wrong.
4. Nothing happens
5. Move on.
6. It's a phony scandal
7. What difference does it make?
8. Dude, that was two years ago.
9. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

Any time any sort of backlash or groundswell of outrage even begins to emerge, this president and his administration start spinning, slick talking, and making all kinds of promises, and people are mollified, the media conspicuously loses interest in covering things any further, and people lose interest in doing anything. This president and his cronies stall for time, and bank on people getting bored and moving on, and so far it has worked like a dream. We are six years into what is easily the most mendacious and untrustworthy administration in my life time, possibly excepting the Nixon administration, and this president and his appointees are no closer to being held accountable than they were when these scandals started coming to light. Look at Eric Holder: the man is clearly stonewalling congressional investigations, lying to the American public, and almost certainly perjuring himself in his sworn testimony. Don't hold your breath waiting for him to be tried and convicted as he should be for this.

 

[george burns]

Most people who don't own guns, are ignorant as to their function and use. They don't know the difference between a rim fire and a center fire or a revolver vs a semi auto, nor what constitutes an "assault rife vs a standard hunting or target rifle".
There is a lot of leeway for politicians to lump them all together. They can easily bamboozle people into thinking that banning certain types of "scary" guns, is the right thing to do, based on their appearance.
This is what we most be careful of more than anything else. I can see Obama or his lackeys trying an end run near the end of his term. I too write letters and send emails all of the time, and most people who are on gun forums don't, either because they can't find the information, or aren't familiar with the process, or are just lazy and like to complain.
but telling one another isn't going to help much, you need to tell those in a position to help or hurt the cause.
Don't think for a minute that the anti gun people just gave up and went home. They are organized and continue to call out their representatives on these issues, so get busy by going to the NRA-ILA and send out the appropriate emails to the appropriate legislators, they will give you their names and emails, and even write the letters for you if you choose not to do it yourself. There are per written letters on every point of contention.

 

[ohbythebay]

Not really

You can't count the entire US population as a potential voting pool.

According to the Census Bureau, as of 2012, 23.5% of the entire population is under 18, and thus ineligible to vote (and own guns).
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

Granted - that takes us to 252,450,000

Also, voter turnout in recent elections hovers between 50-60%; less so for congressional midterms.

http://www.abc15.com/news/national/e...04-report-says

That takes us to approx. 126,000,000

But that also has to be applied to gun voters so 57,000,00 becomes 28,500,000 pro - 97,500,000 potential against

As I said, we are outnumbered better than 3 to 1

 

[mgmorden]

Gun violence is hot in the news right now.

Think about it - when is the last time a multi-car accident that killed 4 to 8 people made national headline news? It doesn't, because the public knows that things like that while a tragedy, does indeed happen and there's not a lot to do about it.

Similarly, I think the public is becoming less interested in the issue lately. The mainstream media seems to be beating a dead horse but on social media and the like? People just don't seem that riled up anymore.

The simple reality is that even if we improve mental health (or banned all the guns), these types of tragedies would STILL happen. Its a simple consequence of having billions of people on this planet. Every so often one of them decides to do something evil and crazy and there's really very little we can do to prevent them from acting out their plans. All that we can do is stay vigilant, and stop them as quickly as possible once they act. I think the public is coming around to that realization.

 

[itsa pain]

And can be imposed at any time at the Federal level. It is called for almost every day.



And could become the norm across the nation in a heartbeat.

I feel like too many are living here in a plastic bubble. Recently, almost on a daily basis, the media and even the President are stirring up the pot.

As was pointed out in someone else's post..The BIG majority of American's are non-gun owners. There is no loss of vested interest for them if they side with the anti's, throw up their hands and say "Yeah..makes sense".

No fight is ever won being purely reactive; wars and battles are won being proactive.

Doctors kill 225,000 people a year due to mistakes throw in another 100,000 due to poison scrip pills. No call for new laws. Hmmmm

 

[ohbythebay]

Hey BSA1..I am on your side

I guess if I sound negative or pick, may be related to my occupation. I do risk mitigation, security, disaster planning and tactical remediation for the "what if's". I have been doing this for the past 14 years so I guess it spills across when I look around every corner, look at every event as a risk scenario. Not always what is happening now but what could happen if A and B occur.

Trust me when I say I am shoulder to shoulder with you fighting the garbage. I get so ticked when I see someone write in the news, on facebook,etc. about needing more gun control after an event. I say "Really? This happened in a state where there were many controls..this happened outside any possible control. What more do you want ?

it is sort of like what I do for a living. We can mitigate so many risks in so many categories, but there are some (identified) that are just above and beyond any control you can put in place. You can mitigate against any safety item in life (and have no life) but if you ever go outside, you can still be struck by lightning. Sigh

 

[John Q. Pirate]

But that also has to be applied to gun voters so 57,000,00 becomes 28,500,000 pro - 97,500,000 potential against

As I said, we are outnumbered better than 3 to 1

You would be right, if you could somehow convince ALL 97,500,000 to vote for gun control AND reliably get them out to the polls on Election Day - an impossible feat. When have that many voters ever agreed on a single issue and voted for it in such an overwhelming percentage?

I think you're assuming that just because someone isn't an NRA member or a gun owner that the odds favor that they'll vote anti. I disagree - there are plenty of progun people who nevertheless don't own any. But more to the point, the vast majority of the population simply don't care either way. Refer to my earlier post - 4% of the voting population doesn't consider gun rights/gun control to be an important issue. They are essentially blank slates - precisely the group of people we in the pro-2A community need to reach out to and to introduce the positive aspects of gun ownership.

 

[BSA1]

ohbythebay,

It may help give you a more positive outlook if you ignore the media and get your news from conservative websites such as Matt Drudge and raw media websites.

A while back a Israeli women armed with a handgun shot and killed a terrorist before he could carry out his attack. The national media here in the U.S. changed her identity to a Israeli security officer. A armed female citizen didn't fit in their liberal agenda so they just changed her description.

Distrust everything you hear from the media and read on the Internet until you fact check it yourself.

 

[barnbwt]

"It may help give you a more positive outlook if you ignore the media and get your news from conservative websites such as Matt Drudge and raw media websites."
I wouldn't ever advocate ignoring anything with legitimate value, but drawing from other than poisoned wells can only be beneficial for a person's outlook.

As it stands, we're in the best position we've had in at least 100 years, as far as peoples' appreciation for civil bearing of arms, longer than that as far as our organization, and yet the world did not collapse on us when we did not hold such an advantage. 1968 was the low point; a decade of high-profile assassinations and popular unrest had people weary of the risks of too much freedom, so they burned it on the alter of the common good.

The media's gleeful fixation on gruesome murders to prop up their dying industry doesn't hold a candle to real social problems like Vietnam/et al., Cold War nuclear annihilation, Civil Rights, or organized domestic terrorism, like were truly present in the 60's.

No need for undue concern

TCB

 

[ohbythebay]

Barn...The link

DOES NOT apply to me.

I thought I made it pretty clear that my comments are based on my preemptive risk adverse nature. if you saw my faceook page or read my letter in Activism forum you would see I am quite sincere. The link was offensive.

 

[barnbwt]

Note the , please. If you read the first paragraph or so of the link, you will see that concern trolling is nearly indiscernible from 'nervous-nellyism' or whatever stupider-sounding term accurately describes genuine supporters with illogical or unsupported doubts about the cause. I made the comment, similar in vein to numerous others here, as a (perhaps too) subtle suggestion to all doubters to allay your fears, and stop (unintentionally or no) sowing needless division and distraction in the ranks. See how many people are tied up here soothing each other's anxieties?

It isn't directed to you, singular, since there is a lot of doubt permeating the forums of late. Since precisely the last "Mass Media Shooting Event" to be exact, and the subsequent "Mass Media Home Grown Terrorist Event" has really brought out the quivering in our ranks. We've got guys afraid to advocate for open carry for fear of being associated with the OCT/C jerks, afraid to be seen with black rifles, guys afraid to stand up to calls for unconstitutional restrictions on people under the most flimsy and broad of medical justifications, people afraid of taking the fight to the opponent's turf by pushing legal victories, and people afraid of cementing our own historic gains thus far. None of this fear is productive, and none of it is justified (just 'felt')

The other side thrives on fear; not us. We're poisoned and divided by it.

The link was offensive.

We're offensive for owning firearms. No one has a right to not be offended. Move past it.

I thought I made it pretty clear that my comments are based on my preemptive risk adverse nature

It's really easy to be afraid; that's why it is so easy for our opposition to exploit that tendency in undecided/ambivalent Americans. Fear is a useful default mindset to take the most conservative path and avoid all foreseeable risk. But it is not very useful for getting things done; only for not getting things done. What I have done for myself is try to determine why I feel uneasy; if I worry about NJ/East Coast laws spreading, what about them am I specifically worried about taking hold (AWB, CCW, registry, etc.). Then, I seek out information to find whether those fronts are actually moving against us. Practically every time I've looked into it, we've been gaining territory outside the most fortified lands of the banners. We are on offensive, so our gains are 'delicate,' and the anti's on defensive, so their holdings are being strengthened against further losses. If you look at it from a skewed perspective, not seeing the forest for the trees, it might look like they are in a stronger position than they were. The Brady campaign had like 5000$ in donations to the DNC in 2012; now what does that tell you about the pool of support they are actually sitting on?

TCB

 

[Joe Demko]

"No one has a right not to be offended."
Perfectly true. However, offended people are not obligated to passively accept being offended. They are quite able to attempt societal and legal changes to remove that which offends them. Not infrequently, they succeed.
Sometimes offending others may be unavoidable. Only a fool, though, careens through life gratuitously offending others while braying it's "because he can."
My other major interest is motorcycling. We have fools in that community who seem to think it is their life's mission to alienate non-motorcyclists into passing restrictive laws, too. Their preferred tool is the straight pipe.

 

[BSA1]

barnbwt makes excellent points.

It is important to remember that the media in America has always had a political slant. First in the print, then radio and now TV. Conservatives now dominate AM Radio and are successful with getting their message out via the Internet.

I believe that the TV and Newspaper media flat out lie on political issues 60%, misstate facts 30% and report the news accurately only 10% of the time. The only reason they report the news accurately 10% of the time is so they can claim they are fair and balanced.

For example; Consider the CNN News reported after Tuesday's shooting at an Oregon high school, and many media outlets, reported that there have been 74 school shootings in the past 18 months that are similar to the violence in Newtown or Oregon -- a minor or adult actively shooting inside or near a school.

That's the time period since the December 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, where 20 children and six adults were shot to death.

The statistic came from a group called Everytown for Gun Safety, an umbrella group started by former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, a passionate and public advocate of gun control.

On Wednesday CNN reexamined the incidents on Everytowns list and determined that only 15 of the shootings were similar to Newtown. The rest of the other incidents on Everytown's list included personal arguments, accidents and alleged gang activities and drug deals.

CNN corrected itself only after first reporting the false information, Which one of the reports do you think the rest of media picked up on and the public paid the most attention too?

http://us.cnn.com/2014/06/11/us/school-shootings-cnn-number/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

I am not saying to blindly accept everything you hear Conservatives say either. We have tremendous resource at our fingertips in the Internet to fact check facts and figures reported by the media. Sadly all too often folks repeat misinformation they read on the Internet because they are too lazy to fact check it themselves, because it sounds catchy or it fits their personal beliefs.

 

[MagnumDweeb]

So you're worried. That's great. What are you doing to organize gun owners?

There's always a chance for a backlash. It's why I now refuse to vote Democrat ever again (I voted for Dem in the Senate in the last election and I voted for Kerry, never again). I stock up when the getting is good. I learned to make my own ammo. I learned to do some gun building.

I figured out 50lbs of prilled ammonium nitrate is way cheaper than 50lbs of Power Pistol (for my own rendition of Ammon Pulver).

So now I'm slowly working towards a series of Trusts that won't violate Anti-Trust laws, that will allow serious activists to organize for the creation and investment in gun and ammo manufacturing, RKBA based litigation and politicking, and quality job creation.

At the same time I also buy guns cheap and I teach people to shoot (NRA Certified Pistol Instructor) and after I run a background check on them (using Lexis Nexis products), and having known them for a few months I offer to sell them one of the moth balled guns that's been sitting in the back of my safe for the last few years (9mm Tokarevs, 85% Model 10s and 15s, etc.).

We have some wins, and we have some losses. We've still lost more than we have gained when you look at what's happened in Colorado.

Get organized, get active. That's all we can do.

 

[ohbythebay]

What have I done...hmm..

Well, besides joining and supporting the NRA ?

• How about writing my politicians from bottom to top every week?
  
• Providing that letter in the activism forum for others to use along with handy links that will tell them who their reps are.
  
• Posting on facebook
  
• Supporting my local range...
  
• Supporting any local rallys

No I have not started an ammo company ...but if your post meant Ensign Pulver and not Ammon Pulver...you may soon see a visit from DHS..

Posts that even allude to such things can and WILL be used against you if need be...

I am not worried, I am proactive.

 

[monotonous_iterancy]

So, what does the average (non-gun involved) person think when they see these stories on the news?

 

[Ky Larry]

If there is a backlash against gun owners,what do you expect to do about it? If it happens, all we can do is keep on keeping on. I can't live my life worrying about what might happen. Do the right thing and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Responses, hey, so what....

I did not read all the reply messages but it seems with the most recent events; WA, southern CA(Santa Barbara) it seems many media sources/public just don't care anymore.
I've seen more news items & articles/remarks saying how no one really has any outrage or problem with these tragic incidents.
Even President Obama sulks away from gun law issues & blames the NRA/2A groups rather than the US medical & mental health community(which has far more support in the DNC/Democrats).

The smart move for 2A groups & gun clubs/gun owners is to push proper training, safety/security(safe storage), new laws or statues to take guns away from felons/mental health cases, and better logistics/records by US gun makers/FFL holders.

Spree killers & looney tunes who prance around casual dining restaurants with rifles or shotguns(because they can ) are going to turn more people against guns/2A issues.

 

[BSA1]

There is nothing wrong with being worried (or concerned) about things that are taking place in our country and in our State Houses and in Washington, D.C. However I believe it is equally important not to be shrill.

I consider myself fortunate that I love in a State that has passed pro-gun laws and my Senator and Represenative in D.C. are pro-gun so I don't need to send them emails every day about gun issues. In a State or District with anti-gun Congressmen I can see the need for more frequent contacts although my efforts might be better put to use by supporting pro-gun groups like the NRA and pro-gun candidates.

 

[ohbythebay]

Fo me...

I wish it was that easy...I live in WA where the gun laws are just fine...with two liberal Democrats for senators - one of which says she voted for restrictions...which is why she gets hammered. My congresswoman on the other hand doesn't go for that crap..so...we will see...

Later..Back to the range