Crazy ATF visit.

[Blacklabman]

To me it sounds more like their agency needs to be disbanded and their "jobs" given to Dawg the Bounty Hunter. As noted, a phone call could have ascertained that the house had been sold.


+1.
The ATF screwing up.... Again??!!
Say it aint so.

 

[SaxonPig]

Deanimator- You obviously have some issues.

Again, I repeat, the screw-up on the address was bad and should not have happened. But I can't fault the agents at the door for using methods that are defensive. They have families, too, and want to go home at the end of the day.

As for your asking me how being rude better protected them, that's perception. They were in a defensive mode, controlling the situation. You see that as being rude. I see it as doing their job. They see it as staying alive.

You say don't cooperate with cops because you are going to jail. Certainly IF YOU ARE THE SUBJECT OF THEIR VISIT then that's good advice. Shut up, demand to see the warrant and ask for an attorney IF THEY CAME FOR YOU. That's not the case, here. If the cops (any cops) come to your door looking for criminals who aren't there how do you jeopardize yourself by helping them? I want to set them straight and get them on their way ASAP and stonewalling, refusing to cooperate with info, or copping a tough guy attitude ain't gonna get that done. What's the point to getting your panties in a bunch? It was a goof. Cops are human, too. If they are curt it's because they are aprehensive. Remain calm. Politely tell them they have the wrong house and send them on their way.

I can recall having cops draw their guns on me twice. Once I accidentally set off the alarm at work. I was alone in the warehouse at 5 am. The silent alarm brought two uniforms to the scene who surprised me as I was loading my truck for deliveries. I calmly explained that I was an employee, gave them my ID, showed them my time card with my name printed on it, and showed them I had a key to the door. They relaxed, apologized for any stress I had experienced, and left. I told them I understood they were just doing their job.

The other time I was pulled over because I was driving a red pick up truck and wearing a blue denim coat. A store had been robbed a few blocks away by a man fitting that description. As I spoke with the officer he got a radio call saying the actual suspect had been captured a mile away by another unit. Apologies all around and again, I understood that's his job.

These cops thought they might have been dealing with dangerous criminals. I can't blame them for drawing their guns and taking appropriate measuures to defend themselves. I think you ask to much if you expect cops to approach suspects with flowers and candy in their hands. If cops were required to behave as you expect I think you wouldn't have many applicants for the job.

 

[carebear]

That kind of polite, decent behavior was common just 20 years ago and in the years prior. Back before this "we can do whatever we like so we can go home", us vs them mentality came into vogue.

If they can't do their job and stay safe while also being polite and performing the minimum prior investigations before knocking on the door they are incompetent and shouldn't have taken the job.

 

[Deanimator]

Deanimator- You obviously have some issues.

Again, I repeat, the screw-up on the address was bad and should not have happened. But I can't fault the agents at the door for using methods that are defensive. They have families, too, and want to go home at the end of the day.

I certainly have issues with people who act in rude and stupid ways. I've yet to see a reason why I shouldn't.

And you have yet to explain how acting in rude and stupid ways is "defensive". Being rude and stupid isn't a "method". It's a psychopathology.

Is there anything you would NOT allow them to do in the name of them wanting to "go home at the end of the day"?

As I said, I can't stop people from being rude and stupid. At the same time, THEY can't stop ME from exacting a heavy price for that rudeness and stupidity. If somebody LIKES to have his co-workers whisper behind his back, "Isn't that the buffoon about whom Senator so-and-so called the boss today?" that's just fine with me. If they like overhearing "Hey, Bill O'Reilly called Schmedlap a thuggish goon last night!", that's doable too. And that's merely the start. I believe I've already said that I have NO sense of proportion. If somebody doesn't believe me, I guess that falls under the "live and learn" category.

 

[SomeKid]

I can recall having cops draw their guns on me twice.

I can't blame them for drawing their guns and taking appropriate measuures to defend themselves.

Keep in mind the unarmed Doctor in Virginia whom cops gunned down on his doorstep. Keep in mind, you were one flinch away from that. If you call that reasonable, all I can ask is, have you considered changing your name to SaxonSheep?

There is no excuse for bad behavior. Period.

I work in security and after I graduate I am going into Nursing. What do you think would happen to me if I acted in such a manner? Police should get the same treatment. Cops are not Gods, they are not dogs. They are people under the law just like you and me. When they violate the law, they should be treated as such. No excuses or special privs.

 

[twency]

I work in security and after I graduate I am going into Nursing. What do you think would happen to me if I acted in such a manner? Police should get the same treatment. Cops are not Gods, they are not dogs. They are people under the law just like you and me. When they violate the law, they should be treated as such. No excuses or special privs.

Exactly what law are you saying was violated, in whatever context you're referencing? Most of this discussion has centered around a.) courtesy/friendliness and b.) LEO touching/drawing of weapons.

Generally, cops are not required by law to be nice. Generally, cops may legally touch and/or draw their weapons at their discretion, within certain limits. Perhaps I missed it, but who exactly do you mean when you post about "they violat[ing] the law"?

If you mean the two cases SaxonPig referenced, than it sounds like the officers had excellent reasons to have their weapons drawn - there was a strong probability, givent the circumstances, that they were dealing with a person who was in the process of committing, or already had committed, a crime.

-twency

 

[SomeKid]

twency, part of my response is in regards to the situations SP referenced, the bottom section is focused on the thread.

While you are correct that under current law police can legally draw their guns in a lot of circumstances that you or I could not. This should change. Their guns should only be out when they need to shoot them, or under reasonable times when you or I could have a drawn weapon (clearing a home, for example). We recently had a case here in Tennessee where some over-zealous cops pulled over a family on vacation on suspicion of armed robbery (the cop was VERY wrong), proned the Father out on the highway at gunpoint (real nice), and shot their pet even after the family repeatedly begged him not to. Suspicion should not be an acceptable legal cover. If you suspect someone is dirty, wait, call for support, and figure out what is up. Making someone stare down the barrel of a gun because you THINK someone MIGHT have done something is without exception unacceptable. Guns stay in the holster until you KNOW they are needed.

Secondly, they can and should be fired if they show up at people's homes and cannot act in a decent and respectful manner. If I treat clients poorly, I do not have a job. It should work the same way for government agents.

 

[Ryder]

This may come as a shock to you, but malicious behavior is often a sign of malicious intent.

Often? Speaking in hind-sight I'd have to say you nailed that one Mr Deanimator.

If you are being treated like crap for no apparent reason expect to be arrested. Arresting people is their job.