Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Criminals in Home Invasion Identify themselves as Local Police !

Discussion in 'Legal' started by DigitalWarrior, Jun 15, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. DigitalWarrior

    DigitalWarrior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2003
    Messages:
    867
    Location:
    Nashua NH
    It is the second to last sentence that irritates me most.

    http://www.unionleader.com/article....rticleId=a5483864-8ac4-43dd-b9fb-5a8950922c3f
    So what the hell do I do when someone starts banging on my door saying that they are an officer of the law. I do not want to shoot a good guy, but I do not want to be shot by a bad guy either.
     
  2. robert garner

    robert garner Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    667
    Location:
    columbus georgia
    If they are kicking in your door, they are not police, or this is not America,
     
  3. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    3,480
    Location:
    Outside The People's Republic of Boulder, CO
    As I've said before on these forums, door-kickers will be considered hostile boarders and dealt with as such no matter who they claim to be.
     
  4. Elza

    Elza Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    692
    Location:
    North Texas
    Lets see….. You shoot the intruders. If they are not LEO’s all is OK. If they are LEO’s you die in a hail of return fire or end up with a needle in your arm.

    You do not shoot the intruders. If they are not LEO’s you get robbed and quite possibly dead. If they are LEO’s you don’t get robbed but may or may not end up dead.

    Don’t we have a hell of a choice????!!!!
     
  5. jselvy

    jselvy member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    518
    I can't tell the difference between the Law and the Criminals anymore.

    Jefferson
     
  6. Elza

    Elza Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    692
    Location:
    North Texas
    Ain't that the truth!
     
  7. AF_INT1N0

    AF_INT1N0 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    484
    That's because at 3am when someone is kicking down your door, there is no difference.
     
  8. DogBonz

    DogBonz Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2006
    Messages:
    2,068
    Location:
    NJ
    I have always feared this

    Think about it. We all have it in our minds that if we hear “POLICE” to not fire… Or at least hesitate. What if criminals start wearing (not that they haven’t in the past) uniforms or those vests with the “POLICE” billboard on them. The only thing that you can do is lock/ barricade your self in a room and call 911 to verify if they are cops or not.

    Think about it. If you don’t shoot, or hesitate, and they are not LEO’s you are in for a bad day, or dead. If they are LEO’s (serving a warrant at the wrong address) and you do shoot you will probably be killed, in not your life as you know it will be over anyway. Look at how hard it can be for someone who justifiably kills some scumbag who broke into their home and tried to do harm to them of their family. Now think about if that dead person was not some scumbag, but a cop who had the wrong address and was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Justified or not, you are in the legal fight of your life and will probably spend every dime that you have in the process. It would not be pretty.
     
  9. LawBot5000

    LawBot5000 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2007
    Messages:
    653
    Location:
    Florida mostly
    If they don't have the courtesy to knock, I won't have the courtesy to warn them of incoming fire.
     
  10. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,171
    Actually, it seems that you're pretty safe: if they actually SAY "Police", they're burglars.

    If they just bust down your door, it's probably really the cops, who got a no-knock warrant for the wrong address, based an anonymous tip from a convicted felon, who said that someone who once played poker with your neighbor's ex-girlfriend was smoking a joint when he saw her last Saturday at the Hell's Angels clubhouse.:p
     
  11. TallPine

    TallPine Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    7,734
    Location:
    somewhere in the middle of Montana
    We don't open the door to anyone that we don't know. Sometimes I will step out a door on the opposite side of the house and come around the corner to see who it is and what they want. A couple times I have had to apologize to folks that we didn't recognize at first, but they have understood. The last time we had the shades pulled most of the way down over the patio door because of the morning sun, and all we could see was jeans and shoes.

    If it is a local sheriff's deputy (or the sheriff himself), it will be obvious by their vehicles and uniforms. Though they would have no reason to come here unless I had called them.
     
  12. Fletchette

    Fletchette Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,398
    Location:
    WY
    Just because they have a badge does not mean they cannot be a criminal. Police officers do not have "extra" rights, they have extra powers and must use them correctly to enforce the law. If they use them incorrectly, they are criminals, regardless of the fact that they have a badge.

    Example: if a bonafide cop tries to rape a woman (and yes, this does happen) is he not a criminal merely because he has a badge? Nope, he is a criminal. Self defense is warranted. If the police officer dies becasue the woman defends herself, she is not guilty of any crime.
     
  13. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    19,604
    Location:
    Alma Illinois
    I love all the heros on the internet who are so technically and tactically proficient that they can awaken from a sound sleep, arm themselves and and actually get into a gunfight with a SWAT team who has planned the action in advance, brought the proper tools to quickly breach the doors, have brought long guns and level IV body armor to the fight and have trained to get in fast and secure any residents.

    Let's face it, unless the SWAT team is totally inept, your first conscious thoughts are going to be wondering why it's so bright in your bedroom as you're blinking in the 6 or 9 volt light attached to an M4 or MP5......

    If you don't engage in criminal activity or associate with those who do, your chances of being the victim of a mistaken police raid are somewhat less then your chances of being struck by a meteorite.

    Going for a weapon or even something that could be mistaken for a weapon in those circumstances guarantees you will be shot many times and most likely killed.

    Your only hope of having enough time to react is to fortify your home to the point where it's not easily entered by standard methods which could include explosives.

    SWAT teams train for all kinds of different scenarios. Thinking that you're going to face the choice of grabbing a gun and fighting and maybe shooting a police officer is just some internet fantasy. Grab for a gun and you will be shot, most likely before you can ever point it at an officer.

    This goes the same for any crew of home invaders who actually train. They are going to hit you when you are deep in rem sleep and it will be over with before you shake the cobwebs out of your head.

    You guys would be better advised to look at motion detectors, alarms, steel doors, lexan windows in steel frames and other physical security measures to defend yourself from either threat. The idea that you're going to be seated in your living room watching TV or sleeping in your bed when the door comes down and you're going to react in time to shoot someone is crazy.

    Leave the fantasy about shooting it out with home invaders to novelists and script writers and spend your time thinking of things that will actually give you time to react and decide if you're the victim of a mistaken police raid or a home invasion robbery.

    Jeff
     
  14. pacodelahoya

    pacodelahoya Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Messages:
    911
    Location:
    SW PA

    Jeff White, Why the citizen bashing???


    That knife cuts both ways don't it???


    That old lady in Atlanta got a shot off didn't she??
    That guy in New jersey killed one of cops when they kicked in his door right??


    Don't think a badge and TRAINING makes you invincible.

    You'd(third person not personal) never make it past my attack chihuahuas without alerting me.




    Did you swear to uphold the Constitution when you joined the police??

    Do you believe that no knock warrants violate the constitution??
    Do you believe that shall not be infringed means that "sensible guns laws" are ok?

    Do you enforce/endorse the above type of activities?


    I'd really like to know exactly where you stand.

    Just because someone says that they are going to shoot at a person breaking into thier home, all of a sudden they are internet commandos. Another question Mr. White. What would you do if someone kicked in your door at zero dark thirty? Play twenty questions?
     
  15. nemoaz

    nemoaz member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2006
    Messages:
    575
    All you have to do is read Guns and Ammo for two years and send a small donation to Pon Raul. Then, you are a true gun rag commando....
     
  16. Lew

    Lew Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2006
    Messages:
    197
    Location:
    Wyoming
    Okay, so I've got a motion detectors and a reinforced doors. I'm awake from the lights. And I hear the door being bashed in. After five hits with the ram it finally caves. By this time, I'm up holding a weapon. What do I do, Jeff? (trying not to be too snarky here, bro. ;))

    Cheers.
     
  17. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    19,604
    Location:
    Alma Illinois
    pacodelahoya,
    I'm not citizen bashing. I'm just trying to bring a little reality to this thread. You might note that I said this: This goes the same for any crew of home invaders who actually train. They are going to hit you when you are deep in rem sleep and it will be over with before you shake the cobwebs out of your head.. The idea that you can instantly awaken from a sound sleep or jump up from condition white while you are relaxing in your living room and put up a credible resistance to a group of trained, armed men determined to enter and seize you is quite ridiculous. It is in fact suicidal. Your only defense is to have good enough physical security to delay the entry long enough for you to respond. You're living a dangerous fantasy if you think that because you own a gun you're doing everything you can to defend yourself. The entire time I was in the Army Infantry we did things like guard mount and stand to because even if you are sleeping with your boots on, your LBE draped around your arm and your weapon in your hand, you still can't roll out and fight effectively without some warning.

    If you want to engage in a fantasy about grabbing up your gun and gunning down home invaders, go right ahead. Just remember, it's a fantasy and don't expect the rest of the world to believe it.

    Nope that's why I plan for things to go wrong. And in this game you can do everything right and still die.

    See my statement above....as Paul Howe says, "They may be booger eaters, but they are booger eaters with guns." I guess getting off a shot or actually killing one of your attackers is your idea of success. Personally I'd rather survive the encounter if possible.

    Professionals have plans to deal with dogs. This includes cops and criminals.

    Yes

    No and neither does the USSC. You see, I am not a Supreme Court Justice, and as a matter of fact, neither are you unless you are really one hiding behind a screen name. The way our system works is that You and I don't decide what's constitutional and whats not. The courts do. And those court decisions have the rule of law behind them. Unless you think that there is no longer any redress through the courts, the legislative process or the ballot box, then you must work within the same constitution that you say you so respect to change those things you don't think are constitutional. Your only other option is to start the revolution. Which will it be, work within the constitution process through the courts the legislature and the polls, or take on the government? That my friend is essentially where you are.

    No and I work through the system the founding fathers put in place to change them. Don't you?

    What activities? No knock raids? Never been on one. Never even heard of a judge around here authorizing one. Contrary to internet myth, no knock warrants in most of the US are very hard to get.

    Ever been in a fight? I mean a real fight, not shoving and pushing in the schoolyard. Ever taken down a target by force? If you had any experience you'd know that sleeping with a weapon next to you isn't defending yourself, that you need to plan to delay your attackers long enough for you to get out of condition white and prepare to repel boarders.

    I have a layered defensive plan that I'm not going into on an open forum as I post under my own name. Think of things like hardened glass, steel doors, long screws into double doorjambs.

    Don't have time, got to change into my uniform and go subjugate the serfs where I work :rolleyes:;)

    Lew said,
    Call the police. They will certainly tell you if it's the police breaking down your door. BTW if your doors look hardened they may choose another entry like a window. I keep telling you guys these things are planned.

    Jeff
     
  18. Elza

    Elza Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    692
    Location:
    North Texas
    Sort of like the way we feel about smart-assed cops telling us “how it is” because of their “I have a badge so I’ll do anything I want” attitudes?
    You are welcome to try my place anytime you want. I’ll be happy to IM my address to you.
    I do not engage in illegal activities. The cops don’t like competition.
    Isn’t that what cops do best?
    You forgot your APC’s, tanks, and black helicopters.
    You are the worst one on this board to criticize anyone that talks of shooting an intruder. Yet, here you are telling us about how you or your badge toting buddies will kill people. Pot? Kettle?
    You need to go (back) to school. REM sleep is cyclic. Are they/you going to stand there and watch my eyes to determine that I am in REM mode before you start shooting?
    But you compared this to being struck by a meteorite. It just doesn’t happen. Besides, we’re just going to get killed anyway, right?
     
  19. budney

    budney member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2007
    Messages:
    741
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    True. But that's cold comfort to the ones it happens to--several every year.

    +10

    Still researching that for my own home. Hard to do cost-effectively: with seven doors and about 30 windows, hardening could easily cost as much as the house. The cheapest place to start seems to be door jamb armor. Then there's the bulletproof window film or go whole hog with bulletproof windows and doors. Naturally, the locks would have to be Schlage Primus.

    The goal would be to make a SWAT team take a half hour to get in, assuming they're carrying shotguns loaded with rock-salt and battering rams. Hopefully that will result in adequate warning, and enough time to call the police station.

    Ironically, if they ever conduct a commando-raid on my house and take me out, it'll be because all my hardening measures aroused their suspicion.

    --Len.
     
  20. Geno
    • Contributing Member

    Geno Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,969
    :rolleyes:

    First mistake: He was not armed 24/7.
    Second mistake: He went to the door without his hand on the gun, or a gun-in-hand (later preferred).
    Third mistake: He opened the door. Ever heard shout through the door?!
    Fourth mistake: He didn't bulldose them all right back out the door to allow his wife to lock the door and call the police.

    Save me the "...he lived didn't he..." retorts. As a husband/father, he had a responsibility; he failed it. Option 4 is stupid, but he put himself there by not carrying. I will never trust a BG to decide if my family will live or die.
     
  21. Elza

    Elza Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    692
    Location:
    North Texas
    Excuse me for going off-topic for a moment but anyone interested might try:
    http://search.homesecuritystore.com/
    for their home security products. I can't say that they have the best prices but they are the best I've found.
     
  22. Nil

    Nil Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2006
    Messages:
    300
    Two words and an internet link: Cory Maye http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cory_Maye
     
  23. obxned

    obxned Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,490
    Location:
    OBX, NC
    Cops at the wrong address or BG's posing as cops?? Is there really any difference?
     
  24. pacodelahoya

    pacodelahoya Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Messages:
    911
    Location:
    SW PA
    Jeff White said,


    Somedays it would indeed appear so.

    If you think that gun laws are unconstitutional, then I would hope you don't enforce them.
    No, I'll just hide in my bedroom and call 911.;)


    As for whether or not I have ever shot anyone, no I have'nt, nor do I want to.
    As for being in fights? Dude, I was a CO for six years, everyone I dealt with was a criminal!! Broke up knife fights, broke up regular fights, fought inmates at the hospital by myself, your point is???
     
  25. pacodelahoya

    pacodelahoya Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Messages:
    911
    Location:
    SW PA
    And for the record, I don't think I'm Billy badasterics. I'm a 44 year old guy who is just past his prime. I'm starting to get arthritis and I hurt like hell most days.

    I was a landscape foreman for several years after I got out of corrections, so I am in very good shape compared to most men my age.

    That has nothing to do with anything though.

    I treat people just as they treat me, I am not beligerant nor am I submissive.

    But... If you treat me, like it seems a lot of people in positions of authority like to treat people, then I will give them the same attitude right back, I will not roll over and show my belly just cause they have the authoritay!!

    And if you are honest with yourself Jeff White, you'll admit that there are a lot of police with that very attitude. You know, the "I'm a cop and your a civilian, how dare you question my judgement, I've been trained".

    You don't need to reply to this, I have a fair idea of where you are coming from, and I know that I have always made myself perfectly clear.

    Just didn't want you to think that I go around looking for trouble(as I've been accused by other posters, seems like they project) or have a chip on my shoulder, I don't, even though it might seem like it. I just don't like double standards. And that is not an attack on you, I don't know you, but it does appear as if a lot of LEOs expect and receive preferential treatment from their fellow LEOs.


    And armed citizens, are, part of the checks and balances built into the government.:)
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page